According to my guide book on Morgans, these estimates on value are correct. Mintage figures have very little to do with prices realized in market. There are hundreds of similar examples to prove this. Guy~
Philly: The Guide Book has always listed the total mintage with the proofs in parenthesis. This was the standardized way of reporting, just to save space.
Phil from Texas, I thought your reply to Carl was a bit harsh. You may want to clean up your writing style and perhaps be man enough to apologize to him. The Redbook contains flaws that would be easy for the publisher to correct. As long as the majority of collectors are willing to accept [no less defend] something that is no better than a car guide, that's what we will get. They put the word "price guide" on the cover, displayed very prominently with a date that is very misleading. It isn't off by just a month, or even a few months. Then, on the inside it says it is "not intended to serve as a price list..." Too late for anyone who read only the cover. While this may not fool you or me, or Carl, it may fool a newcomer and it does a disservice to a hobby which prides itself on attention to detail.
Cloudsweeper99, Just Carl hasn't requested an apology. What concerns me is that a newcomer might read this board and believe the misleading assertion that the Red Book is "full of" errors, when it's not. That would definitely do a disservice to a hobby that prides itself on tradition. My Grandfather was a press operator for Western Publishing (Whitman Books) in the great state of Wisconsin, and he took pride in his work. He knew everyone who worked on the Red Book back in the day, and he responded the same way to people who complained about typos. Especially to those who complained by demeaning the people who worked hard to produce the world's greatest numismatic book for the world's greatest hobby. For someone to complain that the advertisements don't have page numbers (open any book or magazine; ad pages are not numbered!), and that the 1873-CC dime shouldn't be worth $1 million because more than 12,000 of them were minted, is beyond reasonable. Every book in the world has typos. If a coin goes from $10 in Fine to $120 in VF and to $14 in EF.... guess what? the $120 is a typographical error! Get over it! Any book that has hundreds of thousands of data entries will have a typographical error! Doesn't mean "the whole book is full of errors." The "this is not a price list" wording just means that the Red Book is not a dealer's catalog, and you can't order coins from it! How is that "misleading" and how could it harm a hobby newcomer? Am I passionate about the Red Book? Yes, I'm very passionate about the greatest book that's ever come to our hobby, and has introduced millions of people to coin collecting with a kick-butt overview of every coin ever minted by the U.S. Mint and going all the way back to the Colonies. I have great memories of starting in the hobby and reading the Red Book and having it open up the amazing world of coins, tokens, and medals. Great book, great hobby, and great people in the hobby. Carl posts some inspiring, informative, educational, and helpful posts, and I know he's a Red Book fan at heart, as he's said in the past. His complaints could turn people off to collecting and that's what I don't want to see.
Phil From Texas: Nice to see someone defend the guide Book. I just got back from Milwaukee, where I met with Ken Bressett. He is a great guy, and he will surely admit that there are typos in every edition. Lets just accept that the editors are human, just as the typesetters are (human). Do you collect the Guide Book?
Treashunt Been collecting since the 60's I'm aware of the parenthesis.I think you need to read my post again What I'm taling about is not combining the proofs with the uncirulated like they did this year. Look at the Ike's in 2007 book and 2008 to see.
Phil from Texas: Odd that you have read some of my comments about the Red Book and took the time to fine some that are not to important. However, You also failed to note that in the past I've sent Whitman many pages of errors and suggestions. What you bring up was basically noted as a suggestion, not an error. As to learning about coin collecting, your correct there. After well over 60 years of coin collecting, I am learning how little I do know about this hobby and all the possible things there are to know. As to the Red Book, I have them all from the First Edition to present and I do like that book or I wouldn't waste time attempting to have Whitman improve each edition. I go to 2 to 4 coin shows a month, visit numerous coin stores or hobby places that deal in coins and as I said, I constantlly find out how little I know. You mention your grandfather worked there at producing those books back many years ago. I too was there only buying them. As to your thinking that my comments or anyone's comments concerning the goods or bads of any book, coin forum, TV show, etc., you should really know that is what and why we are here. This is America, you know and we do have feedom of speach and if your opinion is different than someone elses, so the better for the education of all. Please stick around this forum and you'll see many, many contradictions of ideas, theories, opinions and/or just statements. You and many others may or may not agree but we all learn something by these things. Oh, one more thing to get your goat is I'm getting ready to send Dennis Tucker another multipage pile of items about the Red Book.
Phil From Texas wrote: "What concerns me is that a newcomer might read this board and believe the misleading assertion that the Red Book is "full of errors, when it's not. That would definitely do a disservice to a hobby that prides itself on tradition." Whether your dad, mom, or grandpappy worked for Whitman has no bearing on the fact that the Redbooks are replete with errors. Mostly mintage figures, but many other errors as well. TYPOS and EDITING........ Quite frankly, Give me $75,000-$100,000, and I assure you, I will edit every single entry as to correct mintage, values given for the grade (transposed values) , and any typos, or missing pages. As I have been editing all my own REDBOOKS with footnotes for many years, this is not difficult to do...... Of course, the Redbook IS the most important coinbook ever published. The fact that it is in the 61st edition bears this out.
Well stated. Why not send those footnotes to Whitman in an attempt to improve the next addition. Many may be ignored but as each item is improved in any document, it helps everyone. Phil from Texas is concerned that if someone reads this post they will throw away thier Red Books, dump all thier coins, change to stamps or Beanie Babie collecting, I suspect. Actually if I know the majority of people they in fact will do the opposite. Run to thier copy and look up the noted comments, errors, suggestions, etc. I also would think many people would purchase a copy just to see these items being the curious ones we are. Over readting to anything is just the necessity of being young and I sure miss that ability but with excessively old age, no time left to do anything but try to help the next generation.
Try 'em all I appreciate all the price guides and I've bought the Redbook regularly. However, there are so many resourses around to check out current prices, I don't think I'll need a Redbook next year. CoinValues, PCGS, Greysheet etc. can give you a good expectation of what you might want to pay for or sell your coin for. There's eBay compleated auctions for recent prices there. All the advertisements and articles in CoinWorld can really shed some light on current prices. If you check into these resourses enough you'll figure out what you want to pay for a coin, and go from there. Bruce
Recognition Dennis Tucker, Publisher Whitman Publishing, LLC 3101 Clairmont Road, Suite C Atlanta GA 30329 Phone: 404-235-5348 Fax: 678-891-4599 dennis.tucker@whitmanbooks.com -----Original Message----- From: Rick [mailtophillydog] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 10:17 AM To: Tucker, Dennis Subject: Mintage mixup on Ike silver I just found out that in the 2008 Red Book under Ikes 40% silver Uncirculated and proofs you did not keep the mintage separate between the proof and UNC's like in past issues. Example 2007 book 1974-S silver Ike 593,577 in UNC and in Parentheses the proof mintage of 1,306,579 This is the correct way Proof coins are a diffeerent coin then the uncirculated and to take a small mintage of 593,577 and make it look 6x bigger is wrong Now in the 2008 book they just have 1974-S siver Ike mintage 1,900,156 which is the total of both together,but you also have in Parentheses 1,306,579 which make it look like they minted over 3 million. Rick Thanks, Rick. We'll correct this in next year's edition. Best wishes, -- Dennis Tucker
