My first auction - have my coins been done justice?

As my collection kept growing and I want to restrict myself to one coin per ruler (preferably unpatinated Sestertii), as enforced by my girlfriend, I have decided to part with some of my older purchases, especially the Dupondii which I could replace with Sestertii of the respective rulers, the Sestertii which I managed to replace with better Sestertii, and Paduans I could replace with ancient coins.

After I had thought about offering my surplus on eBay for a while (but never managed to actually do so due to a certain laziness), I received a mail by an auction company I had bought something from before asking to hand in coins for their fall auction.

I liked the idea of seeing my coins in a catalogue and sent them in, barely making the deadline. I admit that it was a spontaneous decision and that I maybe should have waited and contacted other firms also.

When they sent me the contract I was a little surprised that only my Galba Sestertius is supposed to be offered separately and the other 11 coins were to be offered as a mixed lot.
I immediately called the company but even though they agreed that a Nero Sestertius is something that ought to be offered on it´s own, they told me that it was too late to split the lot as they had already distributed the lot numbers. I was unhappy but agreed to give it a try even though I could have asked them to sent the coins back to me instead.

The shock came this morning when I received the online copy of the auction catalogue:

My Galba is presented nicely as expected:

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=2234&lot=305
https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=4181&category=110769&lot=3425102

However, the other coins are described (in German) merely as "Augustus to Philippus Arabs, 10 AE coins, a beautiful cross-section of Roman history, plus a modern Vitellius" without mentioning (or describing) the actual contents.

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=2234&lot=435
https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=4181&category=110769&lot=3425232

-How and why should anyone who might be looking for anything that is included (Sestertii by Nero, Elagabalus, Julia Domna, Trajanus Decius, Philippus Arabs plus Dupondii by Augustus, Nero and Vespasian, an AE 30 by Caracalla, and a dubious medallion of Otacilia Severa) even be able to find this lot on any auction site???

They had not even bothered to even UNPACK my coins (or the provenance info that I had included with each one) before putting them online and in the printed catalogue!!! They just took a picture of the coins the way I had packed them, the coins hardly visible under the plastic with no identification or reverses shown:



- Why should anyone bid their minimum estimate of 370 Euros (plus charges, of course) for something that is not properly identifiable on the picture?

- Or is it common practice that mixed lots are bought by dealers who look at them in person anyway?


This is not what I had expected but I guess it is my own fault. Need I worry?
Dazed, confused and a little sad, JG

 

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Hi, Jens - one part of the problem may be that the auction house you have chosen to go with is, in my opinion, not the best venue for ancient coins.
There are others in the german speaking area who are better known for ancients. Granted, the top 2-3 will only take high value items, but there are others to consider (Münzzentrum Rheinland, Peus, Rauch, Ritter (on consigment)).
If I ever sell any of my holdings, I would chose another venue.

 

Thanks Eduard! I doubt that anyone will buy or even find it this way so if they come back I will gladly follow your suggestion .

Too bad you can´t see the Nero Dupondius (in the lower left), it´s the real beauty in there!

 

I agree that they should have taken the coins out of their plastic holders to photograph them. The glare makes some of them hard to see. But as someone who often bids on, and loses, group lots, I can assure you that group lots often bring a good price. Dealers have gotten pretty good a spotting big ticket items hidden within a group lot.

 

One suggestion would be to ask them to rephotograph them, out of their holders, demonstrating obverse and reverse. Something like this group lot at Numismatik Naumann:

 

I have to agree that I would have been far more interested in the lots if they---at least---removed the coins from the flips and placed each on top for better viewing.

 

I don't think there is an issue with the coins being sold as a group lot - but they at least should have been removed from the flips!

 

Thank you guys for your encouragement! I complained to the auction house. They understood and promised to rephotograph the coins. Let´s see what happens...

 

I can not understand why you would send such material to an auction venue that thinks they are too good for your material in the first place. Their actions suggest their clientele are unlikely to bid and you would be better off if nothing sells and they are returned to you. Had they lotted the coins individually, you would have made nothing since most houses have a minimum fee per lot. Many of those coins are realistically not more than $20 each so if they sold you would receive only the excess over the minimum or roughly zero.

While discussing choices, you might consider whether you need to change hobbies or change girlfriends. The pair as they are are not compatible. Pick one.

 

People often don't realize that auction houses have lotting minimums, the minimum price they need to have a lot to achieve to make it worthy of catalog space. Since a number of the bronzes in the group lot are significantly scratched and not likely to achieve the minimum, they group them. However, they don't just dump the lower grade stuff by itself. They salt in a few "plums" to try to catch bidder interest. The more high profile a house is, the higher the lotting minimum, and the larger their "balance" lots. This house called special attention to the Vitellius, as the ringer, which makes 11 coins with the other ten. At an average of 33 1/2 euros per coin that is a good price for large Imperial bronzes even sight unseen - if you don't care what issues you are getting. So clearly, the way they were marketing it, in their minds this lot was intended for the wholesale market to buyers intending to retail the coins. Their other clients are probably upscale enough that the house did not expect them to show much interest. That they agreed to rephoto the lot, may not have much impact on how it is listed in their print catalog, but MAYBE the online listing will show them off a bit more.

When you go to six bidders you can see the stratification of companies by the starting prices on their lots and by the grade of the material. The status of a company (especially in their eyes) will tell you a great deal about how they will lot your consignment. Facts of life.

Doug posted as I was writing, but we are on the same wavelength on this one.
BTW, why on earth do you prefer "unpatinated" Sestertii? Not all patina is green. We have some threads going now that get into that (on treating bronze disease and Verdigris) which would be good for you to read.

 

I have to say I was shocked (unpleasantly) by the auction experience of Julius Germanicus. That "batch" of sestertii deserved a better presentation. But then my experience with real auction houses is nil.

I think you would've gotten some action on eBay at $49.99 each. They look better than $20 to me (pace, Doug) - although had you listed them on eBay for $19.99 starting bid, you'd have a few bottom-feeders pretty excited (I mean me!).

 

I am learning that it does not make financial sense nor will provide a classy appearance in a catalogue to offer cheaper coins in an auction. But it is a new experience anyway! I´ll keep you informed...

Next time I will ask Leu or NAC if they would want to include any of my better stuff in their luxurious coffee table auction catalogues. Just for fun...

Tough choice

 

I should have done that because I actually did pay around $1.000 for them in total myself... (way too much, I guess - I hope my girl never finds out about this). I will certainly do so if they come back to me

 

Or through them out on the WTS forum, some of us would snatched them up!

 

This is largely an antiquated idea. Very few coins are sold by printed catalogs anymore. As someone who used to issue printed catalogs, yes, I understand this concept. But in the modern age the vast majority of coins are sold digitally, with very little expense (I dont know if this particular auction is printed or otherwise). This lot would likely have taken 10 seconds to catalog, maybe another 10 to shoot the crummy photo, enter it to a spreadsheet, etc. I doubt they spent more than a few minutes total on it.

I feel for you, they didn't give the lot the attention it should have received. But fret not, I will at least bid on the lot myself, and I imagine this thread should (hopefully for you) gain you some bids.

Base metal coins are like any other (silver). They often are unsellable or collectable in their natural state. They need to be cleaned. Often this means removing the original patina. Most people prefer that 'brassy' look as an end result.

 

Made me laugh out loud. If only life's choices were that simple!

 

Me too

 

Then you need to see at least what you get . Here is the Nero Sestertius (cost me $273):

 

I don't see this at all this way. Yes, things have changed and people in business spend money on different things now but the fact remains that a 'proper' write up of a $20 coin turns it into a $40 coin possibly making it unlikely to sell while the same expenditure will write up a $2000 coin. I always termed this fact 'nuisance value'. That is the lowest price you will see that seller list a coin no matter what the coin is. You might call it the bribe you pay him to handle the coin. It makes no difference if a coin is 'worth' less, the coin will be listed at that price or wholesaled off in batches. In the last thirty years, the nuisance value price has risen with most dealers to the point that there are quite a few who don't bother with coins under $500 and a few that start many times over that. It is foolish to send a collection of $50 coins to a $500 dealer. Most of the coins I buy from big sales are things they had to buy/list to be allowed the 'better' items in a collection. Dealers who have trouble buying coins as nice as these may welcome the group but those who have 'big' sales have all the 'seconds' they can handle.

When the two 'best' coins in the group lot are fakes, 'ringer' is not the word that comes to mind.