If you are going to ship a coin to someone and the coin is under $40, what would be the best features that the USPS offers to use? For example, should I use regular first class mail, priority mail, delivery confirmation, signature confirmation, insurance, etc. Is it any different if the coin were $5 or $10? Thanks for your opinions!
I haven't sold much, just some stuff I sold for my brother in law. For me, the few times I've shipped I've used First Class mail w/Delivery Confirmation. The only time I've used Priority for a coin was when the buyer requested it & was paying shipping. The only time I've used insurance on coins is when the dollar amount was quite a bit higher than $40, unless the buyer wanted it. As a buyer, most of the sellers I've bought from use First Class, sometimes with delivery confirmation sometimes without. A few I use insist on insurance for everything (sometimes USPS, sometimes 3rd party), a few use it for everything over $50.
I myself use 1st class / ins. with coins under $5.00 (American.) Over that, I use Priority mail / delivery con. If the coin is over $50.00, I use Priority mail / sig. con. Just make sure that if it is for an auction that you explain your terms of delivery in the auction itself, not afterward. Jim
I use USPS Priority Mail with insurance AND SIGNATURE Confirmation. Anything I ship has these stipulations included in the S+H quote. No cheaper or alternative methods of shipping. A little known secret..... All too many sellers say something to the effect: " insurance is optional, but if you do not pay for insurance, we are not resposnible....... Or some other such crap..." Guess what? Insurance is not for the buyers protection. The buyer has no responsibility for the safe delivery of the item he paid for and is to receive. The buyer has a legal right to recieve in as described condition, the item he paid for. Just because a "seller" claims that if you do not purchase insurance, that somehow he is not responsible for shipping whatever item to you in as described condition is ludicrous. I require insurance in the S+H terms of the items I sell to protect myself. You either agree to my S+H terms, or you do not. You can buy elswhere. I require insurance for the items I sell to protect myself from unfair or unfounded claims. Any seller that puts the optional purchase of insurance on the buyer as a gaurentee of receiving the purchased item in good condition is a freaking crook and liar. It is absolutly your right to receive in "as described" condition anything you buy, delivered to your door. You need not purchase insurance.. I require it only to protect myself. If you don`t want to pay for my mandantory insurance, then you can shop elsewhere. But you should NEVER be conned into buying insurance from the sellers that try to absolve themselves from any responsibility because you failed to buy their optional insurance. IT IS IMPLICIT for a seller to deliver any item you buy ,exactly as that seller described.
I have put alot of thought into your post. Crook..Liar? We cannot as sellers be responsible for a package after it gets to the post office. The USPS does a tremendous job of delivering the mail on time and in great shape 99% of the time. I do require insurance on the high $ items, like you, to protect myself. I also use signature confirmation and delivery confirmation to protect myself. My job is to deliver the package to the post office in perfect condition and as described in the auction. At that point, I can no longer be responsible for what the post office does. If the buyer refuses the optional insurance to save $$$ , he asumes that risk. We just disagree on policy, but I find your crook / liar comment out of line. I have 1750+ 99.9% 5 star feedback and am no way a crook or a liar. EDIT: I must say BZ, you really have me thinking on this. Am I correct? Am I wrong? More opinions would be great. As a seller and a buyer, I really see both sides. Great thread none the less.
The seller has the responsibility to get the coin (item) to you (the buyer). If he asks for insurance then he's asking the buyer to supplement his costs. If the buyer doesn't pay for insurance the seller still has to get the coin to the buyer who has fulfilled his side of a legal contract. If the coin is lost in transit, the seller has to "make good". If the seller hadn't covered himself with the proper insurance, he still has to complete the sale that he's been paid. Bruce
Much more eloquent way of saying same thing, less abrasive. I'll agree with that 100% having thought about this all day.
You are wrong, but don't take my word for it. Ask PayPal or a card issuing bank. Even if you charge for shipping, I don't know why you (and many other sellers) think you are absolved of the entire transaction once you drop the package off at the post office? You aren't selling it to the post office. Your job is to safely deliver the product to the buyer (whether you hand deliver it, have your cousin Vito drop it off, or pay someone such as UPS, USPS, etc. to deliver it). You mentioned you use signature confirmation and delivery confirmation, but keep in mind, neither is insurance. If it isn't delivered, you're on the hook. Even if something is delivered, if it isn't as described, then you're on the hook. You need to insure the packages, unless you;re willing to eat the costs. And when you do insure the packages, do NOT tell the person that they have to file the claim and send them the insurance slips! You will lose the original payment AND the insurance payment. This is from personal experience (though I was the buyer and was honest enough to send the insurance payment to the seller, who already lost the original payment in dispute). The short story is that I rec'd an empty package which was insured. Seller thought (as you do) that he wasn't responsible. Payment processor disagreed and refunded my payment. Before that, seller sent me insurance forms and told me to file the claim. So my original payment was refunded AND I was paid ($2,000 mind you). A less honest person wouldn't have sent the $2,000, but that's not me. He was lucky, but what he should have done was refund my payment and file the claim himself. Bottom line is that you are responsible for safe delviery of the item. If I were you, I'd insure anything that you're not willing to eat. As you said, "USPS does a tremendous job of delivering the mail on time and in great shape 99% of the time." I'd work in the insurance cost into the shipping price, and insure pretty much everything. Payment is slowwwwww.... I think it was 8 or 9 months or more, but they did pay.
Like I said...I have thought long and hard on this one. I put myself in my buyer shoes, I have to buy to sell you know, and i agree. If I pay for an item, I expect my item...end of story. If item is lost, I expect my $$$ back...end of story. I will adjust my policys and decide how much risk I will assume , dollar amount, before I pay insurance to ship a package. I have to side with you guys on this. Right is right.
That's the smart thing to do. I think we all agree that that's how it should work, but regardless of how we all feel, more importantly that's how the payment processors (PayPal and credit cards, etc.) see it. Of course there was probably 800 ways I could have been screwed. The seller may not have had $ in their accounty for PayPal to give back (their buyer protection isn't insurance either). And the PO could have denied the claim. I may have made it out to sound that filing the claim with the PO was painless, but in truth it was a long, drawn out process that required multiple trips to the PO office, multiple phone calls and letters to the claims office, and much frustration, up to the very day that, without a note or any letter what-so-ever, a check for $2,000 came in the mail, nothng more. I had pretty much given up hope that they would ever send the money, and felt bad for the seller. He too had just emailed me a week prior to the check being delivered. Something along the lines of, "Ohhh well, I guess I'm out the money." I wouldn't wish the PO's insurance claims process upon my worst enemy.
I've sent people low valued coins via just mormal, everyday, first class mail. No insurance, no special postage, not nothing. So far out of many times nothing has gone wrong. I place the coin(s) in between two pieces of cardboard so no one can tell what is in the package or envelope. If no one knows what it is, no reason for anyone, anywhere to try to open or steal whatever it is. For only one coin it appears as a just large amount of paper which would indicate a long, boring letter.
Thanks for all of your thoughts and ideas on this. You all brought up many good things to think about. I still welcome any other's thoughts.
To address OP's specific question: The options you select are dependent on how attached you are to that SPECIFIC coin. Just because the value is $40, if you feel the coin is irreplaceable, then select no less than registered, 1st class (insurance is included). If you sold the coin and just want to make sure you don't get burned, then first class with insurance is all you need. Familiarize yourself with the claims process and save all receipts. This way, you will not misinform the buyer and you will be prepared to cite the specific postal regulations that stipulate a 30 day waiting period before any claim can be submitted. Furthermore, the recipient is required to complete an affidavit as part of the claims process. The original receipt is sometimes also required.
I`m Sorry if I seemed abrasive. I take it you took exception to the "liar, crook" portion of my post. Perhaps all too many honest sellers are just ignorant of the law. All too many sellers, many of them multi-million dollar Ebay enterprises, foist the insurance "for the buyers protection" deal on the buyer. My point is: just require it upfront. As I do. I`m a REALLY, REALLY small time seller. I stand by my main observation to the original post, that the buyer has no obligation, other than to pay for, and receive the item (coins or whatever) that he paid for in the condition described. It is absolutly the obligation of the seller to deliver the item as described to the buyer. If some legal eagle has some case law to refute this, I would like to hear it.
I only do business one way. I only accept USPS money orders, and I only ship USPS Priority, insured, with delivery confirmation. I've never had a problem yet.
I would respond that perhaps (and just perhaps) in an intrastate transaction in a person-to person, or entity (company) transaction, that perhaps the de-facto contract by the parties involved applies. I believe that in interstate commerce, such as Ebay is concerned, and any other interstate commerce, that case law sides on the premise that the buyer has no other obligation than to pay for and receive the item he pays for. If a buyer has no problem with paying for insurance he is not otherwise obligated to pay for, then all is well. Shipping and handeling costs are specified by a seller. The buyer agrees to this. For a seller to absolve himself of an obligation to deliver an item in a condition as described without the buyer purchasing "optional" insurance is ludicrous..............
I have also seen it in the eBay rule, but was not able to find it. If you offer insurance and the buyer refuses, it is the buyers loss if it gets lost. If the seller does not offer insurance, it is his responsibility. As eBay says when you but, it is a binding contract. The buyer cannot arbitrarily change the contract when it states that the seller is not responsible. Aside from that, satootoko has a lot more law education (and practice) than most of the rest of us put together
Rim`s cents wrote :"I have also seen it in the eBay rule, but was not able to find it. If you offer insurance and the buyer refuses, it is the buyers loss if it gets lost." Not so, period. A so-called Ebay rule does not trump US code and Postal Regulations. Rim`s Cents also wrote: "Aside from that, satootoko has a lot more law education (and practice) than most of the rest of us put together" Yeah, I know he is a moderator (You should at least know how to spell his name...NOT!!!) Flat out..... Under any state, local or federal code, rule, regulation, statute..... IT IS UP TO THE SELLER (SHIPPER) to deliver in as described condition TO THE BUYER In my very small bunch of sales, insurance, and signature confirmation is required and stated in my terms. I only do this to PROTECT MYSELF! My whole argument in this discussion has to do with these sellers, that try to absolve themselves of any liability if you do not purchase their "OPTIONAL" insurance. I Re-iterate my contention that the buyer has no other obligation than to pay for the item and the shipping and handling as stated. He need not pay for "optional insurance" to receive his item. As long as the buyer completes his end of the contract by paying for the item, and the agreed upon shipping and handling, he need not pay for"optional" insurance. IT IS IMPLICIT that the seller deliver in as described condition the item to the buyer. Insurance does not protect the buyer from loss in transit, as the buyer has no hand in that portion of the transaction. Insurance is for the protection of the seller(shipper) I can`t believe that anyone would argue with this.........
Rims Cents wrote:"The buyer cannot arbitrarily change the contract when it states that the seller is not responsible." I could not let this go............. The seller has to abide by US , State and Local laws, codes and statutes that require that seller or any seller to deliver as described any item of any kind that is paid for with the required shipping and handeling. I hate to call names, but only a moron would say that you can not obey laws just because you say "when it states that the seller is not responsible"
