Julia Paula Denarius With VESTA Reverse

I picked up this one a few years back in a Frank Robinson auction. While it's not the most attractive coin, it appears to be quite rare. It is listed in RIC, though, where a fourrée example sold in a 1927 auction is cited as evidence.



It is also apparently listed in RSC (though I don't have this reference to verify). It has the Antioch mint style portrait, so I've attributed it to that mint, despite the RIC listing, which implies it's from Rome.

I don't think it's a fourrée, either, because it's too heavy and doesn't show any trace of plating flaking away.

I'm unable to find another example online, though, from Antioch or Rome. A denarius of Julia Paula with a VESTA reverse is not at acsearchinfo, CoinArchives, CNG's archives, V-coins, or Wildwinds. Does anyone have a link to an example online? Anyone own one? Does anyone have any more information about this one? Post your Julia Paulas, Vestas, or whatever you feel is relevant.


Julia Paula, AD 219-220
Roman AR denarius, 3.20 g, 18.5 mm
Antioch, AD 219-220
Obv: IVLIA PAVLA AVG, bare-headed and draped bust, right
Rev: VESTA, Vesta standing right, holding Palladium and scepter
Refs: RIC 224; RSC 22a; Cohen --; Sear -- ; Temeryazev & Makarenko --

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

RSC lists it as 22a, but I can't tell if that's an interpolation on Cohen (the original basis of the RSC numbering) or original to him. Your notes say Cohen didn't list it. It is not illustrated in RSC.

The lising in the BMC, which does not give it a number (but would follow #177), has a footnote referencing the Ratto [sale?] catalog as number 3650, which it specifies is plated. [my query]

Nice to know about this. Thanks for the briefing.

 

Thanks so much for looking this up in RSC and BMC; that's very helpful.

It isn't in Cohen. As that catalog is arranged alphabetically by reverse type, it would have appeared after 22, VENVS VICTRIX:


Cohen DOES mention in a note after #22 that there is a gold coin made by Becker with the reverse VESTA, Vesta seated, but the original is not known.

That plated (fourée) one in the Ratto sale (1927) cited by BMCRE is the same one as cited by RIC. This is the only mention of that coin that I can find anywhere.

 

I see the note by Cohen in the clip you sent (I keep forgetting these things are online) and Seaby included that too in his adaptation to English, i.e. RSC. However, I don't see the reference to the Becker forgery being in gold in the original note, and that is not mentioned in the version of the note in RSC. Am I missing something?

 

It says "coin de Becker frappé sur l'or," which means "coin of Becker struck in gold."

 

The coin was not in Reka Devnia but many rare coins missed that. It would be great to know the current location of the Ratto coin. An illustration could rule out it being this coin. From the photo, I could not rule your coin out from being plated (but don't consider cutting it in half). The reverse is normal for Mamaea so an unofficial mule with that reverse is reasonable.

 

Neat coin. It almost looks like billon?

 

You know, if I saw this exact coin on eBay I would have skimmed right over it as it looks like a fake, but it's from Frank.

Neat find and addition.

I'm no help.

 

Neat! I suppose Doug's mule explanation is the most likely, but an interesting piece for sure!

My JP (a bit porous):

 

Since Doug mentioned a Mamaea reverse, and Vesta figures into this unlisted variety, how about another unlisted Vesta item:


The two types of Vesta reverse listed for Mamaea are with patera in right hand, or Palladium in right hand. The simpulum in right hand is well known from Faustina to Domna and others, but so far not attested for Mamaea. It is not out of reach as a possibility for her, but it could just as easily be a mule with something for someone earlier. We're just starting to line them up, so any suggestions would be nice. This is the seller's photo. I will post a cleaner image when I make one.

Here are the usual reverses:

 

Yours is from the Rome mint. Note how the hairdo differs from this one from Antioch in my collection:

 

Interesting. There are no Vesta seated denarii for any Severan women after Julia Domna (except for my probably unofficial issue Julia Paula). The reverse on that one is probably intended for Julia Domna under Caracalla, RIC 391; RSC 226; RCV 7109.

 

For JP
Antioch could be a bit extreme at times:


But Rome was not uniform in its convention either:

 

RC, awesome new pickup!

~Doug

 

The more I think about it, the more I think my Julia Paula VESTA is an ancient counterfeit. The only known example in the literature is the Ratto sale specimen, which is a fouree, and given @lrbguy 's Mamaea with the Domna-type reverse and this Orbiana with the Mamaea-type reverse (clearly a fourée), there was certainly a lot of counterfeiting going on at the time and one has to think the Julia Paula VESTA might be as well. The only thing against this theory is the weight, a full gram heavier than you'd expect of a fourée.


Orbiana, AD 225-227
Fouree denarius, 2.45 gm; 18.7 mm AD 232??
Obv: SALL BARBIA ORBIANA AVG, diademed and draped bust, r.
Rev: FECVND AVGVSTAE, Fecunditas seated l., reaching out to child.

This is not an official reverse type of Orbiana; rather, it appears to be the reverse of a denarius of Julia Mamaea, RIC 332, issued in AD 232:

 

I'm not sure that proper weight on a solid siver planchet will prevent us from thinking counterfeit, if we understand "counterfeit" to mean any coin not known to have been authorized. For Julia Paula I'm going to add a bit of fuel to that fire with this one:

This coin measures 17mm across and is 3.31g of solid core silver. I don't know the fineness, but there is nothing about the color that suggests a different alloy than was used on bonafide issues. I have only had this coin a few days, but so far it appears to be completely unlisted although physically it seems authentically ancient.
The obverse hairstyle suggests an origin in Antioch, and the rest of the obverse is consistent for that. The reverse type is of Victory standing facing, head left, holding wreath aloft in right hand, and palm frond in left. This is surrounded by the text VICT - ORIA AVGG.
This reverse combination of type and text does not appear in RSC, BMC, or RIC for anyone in the Severan dynasty, from Septimius to Alexander (including the women). There are two Victoria types for Elagabalus, neither of which corresponds to the type we see here. As for the inscription, I do not find it for the Severan period at all, and not after until it appears on an Antoninianus of Philip I; RSC/Cohen 235; RIC 51 (illustrated). The coin of Philip has a similar type but the wings of Victory are arranged differently. Going back prior to Septimius I cannot find anything like it nor a good candidate for a reference to more than one augustus (or augusta). How many dual augustus reigns were there before the Severans? Pius and Aurelius? Titus and Vespasian? I'm weak here.

For the reign of Elagabalus the reverse inscription makes no sense. So what is this?

 

Since I'm only a casual 'Severan' collector and possess just one common example of Julia Paula, I'm of no help....but I found this thread interesting and intriguing.

 

@lrbguy: Slightly earlier than Philip, there's a denarius of Balbinus (RIC 8) that matches the type and legend quite well. So maybe an unofficial coin combining Julia Paula with that Balbinus?

 

Great catch on that Balbinus!! There is a dark illustration in RSC vol III for RSC 27 but your suggestion answers everything, and more. The BMC catalog lists an aureus for Balbinus with this reverse type (#36) including the break pattern, then notes that it so closely matches it may have been made from a cast of the denarius (#37). [emphasis mine] Both coins are illustrated, but in those pics the break pattern is not quite the same, and on the aureus Victoria shows more wing on the right side (her left) than on the denarius. The coin of Julia Paula follows the reverse of the Balbinus denarius exactly in those and other details.

There was apparently some tinkering with the coins of Balbinus, and someone muled an old Julia Paula obverse with one of his denarius reverses. So irregular it had to be an ancient fraud.

 

Now that's a great image. Oh, and very nice coin too.