1874 S Trade Dollar...Help Needed

I have a 1874 S Trade Dollar that I need some help with. The weight is right, size is right, it's non-magnetic. I had 6 local coin dealers look at it and they all said it's real, one offered me $230. Do you think it's real or fake? If fake, what are the reasons you think its fake? Any help you can provide would be appreciated.

 

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Sell it!! That's all I will say ...otherwise, you will have a moral dilemma.

After you do, all of us here can talk about it.

 

Uhh...


This looks completely real to me.

 

It looks like it's been polished and I'm not certain that it is authentic. The reeds seem wrong and the marks on the reverse look like casting bubbles.

 

The closeup of the lower left reverse - the denticles and pimples are questionable IMHO. Actually the reverse rim looks really funny - extra metal - in the full coin shot.

 

I do NOT like the overall look of the OP coin. Those letters and numbers on the reverse look like the Chinese style counterfeits. I'd be very worried if I owned that coin.

 

+1

 

OK, too late. Your coin is a counterfeit and not a very good one. It would get tossed immediately by any Trade dollar collector, advanced counterfeit detection student, and a TPGS. Still, as you found out it will fool the typical coin dealer so to most it would be a considered a pretty good fake. The best image you provided is this one:



Study the shape of the letters. Compare them with a genuine coin on the internet. They are totally CRUDE!

Now, if you agree with my opinion, are you going to sell it to a dealer?

 

I have trouble believing that you got 6 dealers to sign off on this...

 

I do believe Insider got the bingo on this one. If six dealers signed off on this, it is further evidence of the oft-repeated advice of dealing with only slabbed trade dollars.

 

Santinidollar, posted: "I do believe Insider got the bingo on this one."

And that ^ is my prize. Thank you.

 

Honestly, 4 were at one stand (all members of a local coin club). All 4 were older guys that owned their own business. The other two were a different stands. The one checked the weight, size and made sure it was silver and then offered the money.

 

You can't sell it if you know it is counterfeit.
And the dealer who offered the money, prob already has a customer in mind
(not that he knows it's a fake). Their business is buying and selling coins, not collecting.
How much did you pay? If it was relatively inexpensive, that's a tip-off.

 

So, based on the 6 dealers 'okaying' it and the AU grading the stated I sent the coin to PCGS because I thought $230 was low. PCGS said that it is counterfeit. I was a little surprised so that was the reason I posted it here for a second opinion. I should have sold it for $230 before I knew it is counterfeit....now I can't sell it for anything beyond melt value. I didn't pay anything for it (expect grading fee's) so I'm not really out anything.

 

Yeah, now that PCGS said it's fake I won't sell it and it will stay in the holder marked Counterfeit.

Didn't pay anything so I'm not out any money except grading fee's. I should have posted here before sending out for grading.

 

Six dealers, wow. But like we say on the farm (sorry, it's about harvest time) there are combine drivers and there are combine operators.

 

My question is why would you pull the trigger on a coin be it raw or graded if you didn't know what you're buying?
I have said this many times.....if you don't like to read,if you don't like to research a topic or item, to learn more...coin collecting is the wrong hobby for you!
Seriously!

 

I didn't pay for it, it was kind of inherited. I didn't lose any money on it. I've had it for a few years and have done research but I was unsure so I got those 6 individuals opinions. Based on their thoughts I got it graded, not to sell but to get it graded and slabbed to put away for my daughter (I had no intention of selling it, the person that offered money but I declined...I did think it was a low offer but I was there to get an opinion not sell).

I personally took it several places to get the weight checked and they all came back really close to 27.2g, and the diameter was 38.1mm (all accurate from the research I did). All of the sites and reading I did for the typical tells of a fake (the Liberty banner points to the left vs down, 3 fingers holding the branch vs 4 on the type 2, the REV arrow ending between the 2 and 0 in 420, the oval under the right claw of the eagle and so on) checked out except for the head feathers on the eagle's neck came down a little low, almost like a type 2 vs the type 1 that it should be for the 1873 and 1874. I did research it but I don't claim to be a trade dollar expert....I'm more into Wheat cents (and still not an expert there either)

With this fooling so many people and after getting the PCGS results, I thought posting here and getting feedback from more experienced people would prove to be a teachable moment for me and maybe help others in the process.

 

Anybody have a thought on the manufacturing process of this fake? I'd like to know more.

 

I believe dies are created from genuine specimens.
There is a book that was recommended here (I got it on Amazon).
Numismatic Forgery by Charles M. Larson
Personally I was not thrilled with the book. But it does explain various counterfeiting manufacturing techniques.