A 'Boring' Domitian Denarius

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by David Atherton, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Picking out rarities among Domitian's Minerva issues is not for the faint of heart. At first glance, all the dates and titles seem very overwhelming and with only four standard reverse types to go by, quite boring. Finding a rare date that others have overlooked is fairly pleasing for a Flavian specialist. My latest coin looks very boring, but it is anything but that! At least to me.

    D652a.jpg

    Domitian
    AR Denarius, 2.93g
    Rome mint, 88-89 AD
    RIC 652 (R2), BMC -, RSC -
    Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P VIII; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.
    Rev: IMP XVI COS XIIII CENS P P P; Minerva adv r., with spear and shield (M1)
    Acquired from Numismeo, August 2017.

    Domitian was acquiring imperial acclamations at a rapid pace in late 88 due to intense military activity in Germania and Dacia. The coins record the successive acclamations quite meticulously. Here is a very rare coin dated with his 16th imperial acclamation. Domitian was awarded his 17th imperial acclamation by 7 November, so this coin was struck at some point before then, perhaps for just a few days judging by the rarity of the title. We do not know what long lost victory the 16th salutation was awarded for, all that remains are the coins recording it.

    A reverse die match with the BM specimen, perhaps further evidence of its rarity.

    Post your 'boring' coins!
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
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  3. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Nice catch David. I do not think that it is boring at all. After all it does tell a story about an event at a particular time even if we do not know what the event was.

    This denarius of Hadrian would probably be boring if it wasn't for a variation in the reverse legend. This one has Cos Des III, and that makes it quite scarce. hadrian ric 48.jpg
     
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  4. alde

    alde Always Learning

    I would have never guessed at this coins rarity. I would have just seen a fairly common reverse for him. That comes from inexperience and being too general in collecting I guess. Of course you and a few others have an ability to spot these coins that only comes from years of study and looking at lots of coins. You have taught me to not take any coin for granted.
     
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  5. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    That is an awesome coin! I guess this is the closest we get to the "thrills" :bored: of collecting moderns (looking for those minute varieties). But as Orfew points out, it really is thrilling in our case because of the historical significance of these details! (I make an exception for the 1936 dot Canadian penny and dime. Those are definitely cool.)

    Here are a couple, both of which I've posted elsewhere recently. The first looks like a boring Genio Populi Romani of Constantius I, but it isn't because it was struck under the usurper Domitius Domitianus in Alexandria (the eagle is the key feature):
    149518.jpg

    And here is what looks like a boring Virtus Exerciti of Magnus Maximus... except it is a unique type for him, struck in Constantinople during the brief period when Theodosius was favourably disposed towards him:
    Screen Shot 2017-09-20 at 11.13.48 PM.png
    Both of the above are rather rare.
     
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  6. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Nice score!

    These are average in style and okay in condition but from mints very hard to find FH from.

    Trier
    1554612_615393961830852_2000425796_n.jpg

    Amiens
    IMG_2786.JPG 006.JPG
     
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  7. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Thanks everyone for the kind words. It is most heartening to see such 'boring' coins appreciated. Fans of numismatic minutiae unite!
     
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  8. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Although I do not collect Empire coinage as much, and do not collect them in the detail that many folks do, I heartily agree about Ancients collecting vs my experience in Moderns collecting. I enjoy collecting Ancients based on their Historical significance. To me, THAT is fun. Yes, there are MANY critical junctures in Modern History that are recorded on MASS PRODUCED, machine manufactured cool coins. HOWEVER, it seems Modern collecting focuses on minute, INHO insignificant MACHINE errors or varieties. Having been in Manufacturing for 40 years, LOL, I can give you MILLIONS of "rare" varieties of anything we made. Yup, even made a few just to get "collectability" for common items. :D I have always wondered how many time Mints around the world have created "errors" to spice up collectability and marketing excitement for the Modern coins market. :D

    Regardless, @David Atherton , congrats finding that Rare coin! It would be cool someday if you would ever associate that Coin's rare acclamation to that significant historical event! Well done!

    My boring Domitian Minerva:

    RI Domitian AR Denarius 81-96 CE Minerva spear shield COS XVI CENS PPP RIC 719.jpg
    RI Domitian AR Denarius 81-96 CE Minerva spear shield COS XVI CENS PPP 22nd Imperial acclamation minted between 14 September 93 and 13 September 94 RIC 761

    CURIOUS: would you possibly know if there were any acclamation associated with this issue?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
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  9. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Your coin records Domitian's 22nd imperial acclamation. It was awarded to him in 92, your coin dates between 14 September 93 and 13 September 94. Presumably military activity had quieted down by the early 90s to have so few salutations awarded. As a matter of fact, IMP XXII would be the last acclamation recorded on the coinage until Domitian's murder in 96. Most likely it was awarded for some victory during the Pannonian War, the last known major military activity of the reign.

    BTW, your coin is RIC 761 (C3), struck in one of the largest denarius issues of the reign.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
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  10. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    I LOVE it when you can attribute a coin to a specific event and time---it greatly enhances my appreciation of it, especially if it happens to be a highly scarce or rare issue of the type.
     
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  11. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    THANK YOU very much for the re-attribution! Corrected in my database!
     
  12. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    ...and that is the important part. I am so happy you found the coin you (only you???) can love. I find it interesting that, to me, a Minerva of Domitian is not of interest. I collect Septimius Severus and, for him, Minerva is a special reverse with some scarce and some very rare types. I would expect you to be bored by my rare Minerva. Such is life.
    I have asked several times for anyone knowing of another match for the Septimius (Emesa) with owl below to post it. No luck?
    rg2170bb1736.jpg
     
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  13. Neal

    Neal Well-Known Member

    Congratulations on a nice find! On my budget as a retired history teacher, ANY identifiable ancient is cool and somewhat rare! I love when an ancient can be tied to specific times and events.
     
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  14. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

  15. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

  16. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Welcome to CT Neal! Domitian's Minerva denarii can be very affordable, especially considering he is one of the Twelve Caesars.
     
  17. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I actually find later depictions of Minerva on Roman denarii quite interesting. Seeing how they differ from the standard four Domitian issued is fascinating. Your Minerva approximates Domitian's type 3 Minerva, with the addition of an owl instead of a thunderbolt.

    D344.jpg Domitian
    AR Denarius, 3.20g
    Rome mint, 85 AD (fifth issue)
    RIC 344 (R2), BMC - , RSC 186
    Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P V; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.
    Rev: IMP VIIII COS XI CENS POT P P; Minerva stg. l., with thunderbolt and spear; shield at her side (M3)
    Ex CNG E363, 11 November 2015, lot 319.
     
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  18. ValiantKnight

    ValiantKnight Well-Known Member

    I consider my Vespasian denarius pretty "meh". Only thing keeping me from selling it is the fact that it was my very first denarius.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I really am fond of this reverse type - a tribute penny pastiche with Vespasian instead of Livia(?). IMHO, not boring at all!
     
  20. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Great addition, David. For sure one I would have whizzed past on ebay.
     
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