Trivia: Motto

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Clinker, Oct 11, 2007.

  1. Clinker

    Clinker Coin Collector

    On November 13, 1861, with the nation embroiled in civil war, a small-town Pennsylvania preacher (Reverend N. R. Watkinson) sat down to write a letter. It was addressed to Salmon P. Chase, Secretary of the Treasury under President Lincoln.

    He strongly suggested adding a phrase to the U.S. coinage about God so America wouldn't be thought of as a heathon nation.

    Exactly one week later, on November 20, 1861, Secretary Chase wrote to Mint Director James Pollack,

    "Treasury Department, Nov. 20, 1861"​
    "Dear Sir:"


    "No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins. You will cause a device to be prepared without unnecessary delay with a motto expressing in the fewest and tersest words possible this national recognition."

    NOTE: First Uses of "IN GOD WE TRUST" On Circulating Coinage:

    1964 Two-cent piece:(images courtesy Coin Facts)

    http://www.coinfacts.com/two_cents/two_cents_by_date.html

    1866 Quarter (image courtesy of Don's World Coin Gallery)

    http://worldcoingallery.com/countri...llar km98 (1866-1891) Liberty Seated w/ motto

    1866 Half Dollar (image courtesy of Coin Facts)

    http://www.coinfacts.com/half_dollars/seated_liberty_half_dollars/1866_half_dollar_with_motto.htm

    1866 Dollar (image courtesy Coin Facts)

    http://www.coinfacts.com/silver_dollars/seated_liberty_dollars/1866_silver_dollar.htm

    and the following 1866 gold coins:

    (image courtesy of Coin Facts)

    "Another Act of Congress passed on March 3, 1865 which allowed the Mint Director, with the Secretary's approval, to place the motto on all gold and silver coins that "shall admit the inscription thereon."

    "Under the Act, the motto was placed on the gold Double Eagle coin, the gold Eagle coin and the gold Half Eagle coin."

    Here's the $5 Gold Half-eagle (image courtesy of Coin Facts)

    http://www.coinfacts.com/half_eagles/with_motto_half_eagles/1866_liberty_head_half_eagle.htm

    Here's the $10 Gold Eagle (image courtesy of Coin Facts)

    http://www.coinfacts.com/eagles/liberty_with_motto_eagles/eagles_liberty_head_with_motto.htm

    Here's the $20 Gold Double Eagle

    http://www.coinfacts.com/double_eagles/liberty_head_with_motto.htm

    1909 Lincoln One Cent: (image courtesy of Coin Facts)

    http://www.coinfacts.com/small_cents/lincoln_cents/wheat_ear_cents/1909s_vdb_cent.htm

    1916 Ten cent (image courtesy Coin Facts)

    http://www.coinfacts.com/dimes/mercury_head_dimes.html

    1866 5 cent coin: (image courtesy of coin Facts)

    http://www.coinfacts.com/nickels/shield_nickels/shield_nickels.html

    NOTE: In1883 the motto disappeared from the nickel and did not reappear until 1938.

    1938 Five cent: (image courtesy of Coin Facts

    http://www.coinfacts.com/nickels/jefferson_nickels/jefferson_nickels.html


    NOTE: A law was passed by the 84th United States Congress (Public Law 84-140) and approved by the President of the United States on July 30,1956. The President approved a joint resolution declaring In God We Trust the national motto of the United States.
    .
    This is not the end of this trivia:

    The motto "IN GOD WE TRUST" wasn't the first version of the American motto:

    First opposion against this law pointed out the "separation of church and state" safegaurds guaranteed by the Constitution. It was agreed by the majority "IN GOD WE TRUST" did not infringe upon an individual's right to practice any particular religion.

    As you know, before coins are struck, patterns are created in various metals and struck to see the results. Since the acceptance by Pollard to create a motto was agreed upon in 1861, but not consumated until 1864, several patterns were made with various versions of the motto.

    Those versions read:

    "GOD OUR TRUST" (the tersest)
    "GOD AND OUR COUNTRY" (the longest/largest)
    "IN GOD WE TRUST" (the accepted version)

    Here's some of those Patterns:

    1861 Half Dollar pattern in silver: (images courtesy of uspatterns.com and Heritage)

    1861 Half Dollar pattern in copper:

    "GOD OUR TRUST" on ribbon:

    http://store1.yimg.com/I/uspatterns_1943_8393237

    "GOD OUR TRUST" no ribbon:

    http://store1.yimg.com/I/uspatterns_1943_8453379

    NOTE: These same two patterns were repeated in 1862 and 1863 in both metals.

    1861 $20 Eagle pattern in copper: (image courtesy of Coin Facts)

    http://www.coinfacts.com/patterns/1861_patterns/judd_285.htm

    NOTE: The motto on the ribbon.

    Here's another without ribbon:

    http://www.coinfacts.com/patterns/1861_patterns/judd_287.htm

    NOTE: These two pattern designs were struck in silver and copper and both designs and metals were restruck in 1862 and 1863.

    1863 Pattern Two Cent Piece: (image courtesy of Coin Facts)

    "GOD OUR TRUST"

    http://www.coinfacts.com/patterns/1863_patterns/judd_0312.htm

    This 1863 Two Cent Piece image is courtesy of uspatterns.com and Heritage):

    ""GOD AND OUR COUNTRY" (struck in Bronze, Copper-Nickel, Oroide and Aluminum).

    http://store1.yimg.com/I/uspatterns_1794_39641255

    Hope you enjoyed learning this...

    Clinker
     
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  3. Bonedigger

    Bonedigger New Member

    Yes, thanks for posting the information. Very interesting and yet another historical tidbit not everyone is aware of.

    Take Care
    Ben
     
  4. J.Cordeiro

    J.Cordeiro Coin Geek

    Good to know.
    Thank you.
     
  5. Clinker

    Clinker Coin Collector

    Bonedigger

    Thanks for reading and commenting!

    Clinker
     
  6. Clinker

    Clinker Coin Collector

    Cordeiro

    THANK YOU!

    Clinker
     
  7. USS656

    USS656 Here to Learn Supporter

    Thanks for the trivia - it's cool to see those old pattern coins!
     
  8. Clinker

    Clinker Coin Collector

    Uss656

    Cool to have you give a positive comment!

    Clinker
     
  9. gatzdon

    gatzdon Numismatist

    This thread should be a sticky (at least for a while if not permanent)
     
  10. clembo

    clembo A closed mind is no mind

    It is a good piece of trvia Clinker. Being a 2 Cent Junkie I knew this, but of course, you took it more in depth.

    Thanks!

    clembo
     
  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Clinker -

    Purely in the interest of providing you with some additional info on this subject I am copying here a short article I wrote on the subject a few years ago. For the history of these words and their importance to our nation goes back much further than many realize.


    "IN GOD WE TRUST"


    Few things have ever created so much and such long-lived controversy in the history of our nation as those four little words. Those four words are one of the Official Mottoes of the United States of America. The other is E Pluribus Unum. And as such they appear on every coin and every Federal Reserve note produced in our nation today.

    The nation is divided into two basic camps regarding this subject; those who think the Motto should be changed and removed from our coins and currency; and those who think it should remain. Both camps have their reasons for their ideals and both are resolutely certain that their ideal is the correct one.

    Those who wish the Motto to be changed and removed base their thinking on the idea of the separation of church & state and claim that such a Motto is not a part of our nation's heritage. That it is but a recent addition and as such had no place in the founding of our nation. And that based on the idea of the separation of church & state such a Motto is unconstitutional. Those who wish the Motto to remain unchanged refute these claims in every way. It is a difficult subject for many people to consider in which camp they belong. For others, they have no problem. They know on which side of the fence they stand and defend their position with vigor.

    A simple search of the Internet for the words "In God We Trust" will bring up enough links on both sides of the issue to keep a person reading for weeks. But for myself there are really only two questions that need asking. Is the Motto actually rooted in the very beginnings of our nation's heritage? And does the Motto contradict the idea of the separation of church & state?

    The first question is easily answered for me. There were 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776 - the very beginning of our nation. This is the pledge that those 56 men made - "For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." It seems rather hard to argue that "In God We Trust" and "firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence" do not convey the same meaning. And how much further back can you go into our nation's heritage than the signing of the Declaration of Independence?

    Then of course you can examine our National Anthem - written in 1814. The words of the third from the last line of the fourth stanza are - "And this is our motto - 'In God is our Trust!" Now somebody will say those words are not in our National Anthem. But "The Star Spangled Banner" is actually a poem that was put to music. And only the first stanza of the poem was used in the song.

    So it seems to me that when Congress decided to place the Motto "In God We Trust" on some of our coins back in the 1860's they were only too aware of just how much those words are a part of our nation's heritage. Perhaps we have forgotten it.

    As for the second question; this nation was founded on the idea of freedom of religion. Because at the time, in most nations of the world there was only one religion acceptable in any given nation - that being the State Religion of the given nation. And the founders of our nation wanted to make sure that was not the case here - which they did.

    The First Amendment of the Constitution states - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof......" Seems rather obvious to me what that means. That the Congress shall not make any law that establishes a State Religion. That is what is meant by and what was intended by our founding fathers to maintain a separation of church & state.

    Perhaps - we have forgotten too much.
     
  12. Clinker

    Clinker Coin Collector

    gatzdon

    That's such a nice thing to say...
    ...thank you!!

    Clinker
     
  13. Clinker

    Clinker Coin Collector

    clembo

    THANK YOU...I appreciate all and every comment...

    Clinker
     
  14. Clinker

    Clinker Coin Collector

    To Eberyone

    What a person...Moderator...American!!...

    Clinker
     
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Glad ya liked it Cinker ;)
     
  16. Clinker

    Clinker Coin Collector

    Gdjmsp

    And I agree with you and the original author!

    Clibker
     
  17. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    Nice work, everybody. And a welcome relief from those who take an extremist stance - particularly those with hidden agendas, such as the extermination of religion.

    I read a very interesting book recently entitled "American Gospel - God, the Founding Fathers, and the Making of a Nation". It is written by a senior editor of Newsweek. Though I don't agree with everything in it, it is well recommended.

    Of particular interest is a section explaining why the phrase "separation of Church and State" is on everyone's lips, though it does not appear in the Constitution.

    TRIVIA: does any one now where that phrase DOES come from ?

    It would be equally valid to say "separation of Atheism and State". Communism shows what happens when that line is erased - 100 million dead in a few decades.
     
  18. hontonai

    hontonai Registered Contrarian

    The phrase is almost as old as the Constitution. It's first recorded use is in a letter from Thomas Jefferson, quoted here (in Paragraph B).
     
  19. clembo

    clembo A closed mind is no mind

    Thanks for clearing that up Hontonai.
     
  20. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    Yep !

    But since it's not in the Constitution, it lacks Constitutional clout.

    Interesting that the phrase came about due to Baptists congratulating Jefferson on his election, and his warm response to them.
     
  21. clembo

    clembo A closed mind is no mind


    900fine,

    No offense intended but shouldn't this be in the PRWE section where it belongs? This was a great COIN RELATED thread. Now I see no mention of coins and am taking offense to it.
     
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