Coin without any number/figure?

What about "bitcoin"?...

I've not dealt with the bitcoin, upto now, so, I don't know much about it.
However, anyone can see its basic, it is a "soft" money if it is called "money".

What is "money"? It is an item with a local universality and it has
1) a "mathematics" (counting/numbers/etc) and
2) a "function" (exchange/labor/trade/etc).
3) a "physical" form, at least, of its "unit".

At this moment, (2), i.e. "function" of bitcoin is not clear enough yet as it has not been a widely local thing yet. So, it is a "primitive" version of future money if there will be such a money in the future.

However, even at this moment, (1), i.e. "mathematics" of bitcoin is higly advanced, so advanced that it can also be considered as "over-engineered" and again, there is still a missing thing in the basic math of this money. For example, "unit" of bitcoin is not clear. It is said that its unit is BTC, so, this must be the smallest so that any and all amount of bitcoins should be able to be counted in terms of BTC using countable numbers, i.e. integer numbers. But, it is not so. For example, these are some bitcoins:

...,
kBTC (kilo BTC=1000BTC),
hBTC (hecto BTC=100BTC),
daBTC (deca BTC=10BTC),
BTC (BTC = 1BTC, this is called "coin"),
dBTC (deci BTC=0,1BTC),
cBTC (centi BTC=0,01BTC),
mBTC (milli BTC=0,001BTC),
...,
etc.

Where is the "unit"? It is said that "BTC", 1 bitcoin, is called as "unit".
It may be called so mathematically, but, this way, this "money" can not have a "physical" form because this bitcoin money has an "open" end, can be microBTC, nanoBTC, etc etc.

To explain this with an example. Lets say I'd like to change 1cent coin in my pocket which I worked hard to earn to BTC. I just looked at current rate of BTC in USD and it is around 1BTC=4000USD. So, how much is my 1UScent in BTC?
1cent = 0,0000025BTC. (that's 2,5microBTC).
Notice that this is not an integer number, so, "2,5" can not be quantity of "unit". So, we need to find a smaller one, for ex, nanoBTC. Then, 2,5microBTC will be equal to 2500nanoBTC... Then, it is Ok. If we stop here, then, we can call "nanoBTC" as "unit" of bitcoin money and then, that unit can have physical form and the others such as microBTC, milliBTC,..,BTC,..decaBTC, etc too may have physical forms if necessary, though I don't think they will be necessary. The only necessity of physical form of money is its "unit", eg, in this example, "1nanoBTC" as "unit" of bitcoin should have physical form, physical coin.

Why is "integer number" necessary? Because it is related to the "physics". To have a physical form/coin of money, the "unit" of money (bitcoin in this case) has to have a physical form first. Other than "the unit", others such as kBTC etc can stay as "soft" money, i.e. as numbers only, as already being done in/by bitcoin.

So, until the "unit" of bitcoin is determined/fixed, bitcoin is not counted as money, yet.
Condition (3) is not satisfied.

(however, that "unit" condition has not been "really" satisfied/handled properly yet for centuries in the already available moneys, either. And, this is also being questioned here in this thread.)

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

15

 

I see. You've been warning me, you mean "15 pages past and erol, you have not said anything yet". You are not totally wrong. I'll say a thing now clearly.

After this "bitcoin" post, it is necessary to say it now.
I'm not against the bitcoin, but, while there is an error, an historical error, inventing somethings new such as bitcoin will not be a remedy to this error still existing at this stage. Bitcoin today maybe helpful on some foreseeing the future, however, in this special case (money/coin), the future is dependent on the "error correction" rather than new inventions such as bitcoin.

So, the focus of this thread is "error determination and error correction" that can also be called repair&maintanence in industrial language. (hey, "old" engineer out there, see, I just said it.)

 

They're both standard coins. CENT means 1/100th of a DOLLAR, and 1/2 CENT means 1/200th of a DOLLAR. Standard coins.

 

The word "standard" may mean different in different fields. For example, in social life, it can be a thing considered by "general consent" or by "commonly accepted". With this definition, "dollar" too is a standard as "commonly accepted", but, technically, "dollar" is not a standard.

In the technical fields, standard is a reference thing related to the accuracy and it is about the "unit". So, lets use the word "unit" here, not to get confused with different meanings of the word "standard".

Mathematically, the unit of money is the "indivisible" entity.

So, before 1856, there was "Halfcent", or, as you wrote, "1/2 cent". Here, you divided 1cent by 2. But, the "unit" is indivisible". So, before 1856, 1cent was NOT "unit". Then, the "unit" was "1/2cent", lets rename it "Halfcent", even better, say, "Hacent", not to get confused. After phasing 1/2cent out in 1857, 1cent became "unit" as it became indivisible as there was no "Hacent" anymore.

The "unit" in money is simply that: the smallest number you can see in a money account.
It cannot be less than 1cent today even if there is no its physical coin, like it is in Israel today where there is 1agora in the accounts, but, there is no 1agora coin there. Still, the "unit" of money there is 1agora.

Problem in the US and in many places is that: Many people don't know or are confused about the unit of money. In many places, physical coin corresponding to the "unit" of money does not exist, phased out due to inflations etc. In the US, 1cent coin exists, but, people do not have it in their pocket. Due to its existence of 1cent coin in the US, error correction can be made easier in the US. However, it seems that people there are not seeing any error about 1cent there, so, before "error correction", our work now is "error determination".

First question: Is there any error about 1cent in the US? (This is hardest question to be answered, for the US.)
If no, close this thread... If yes,
Next question: What is the error? (Answers to this question is "error determination".)
Last question: How can that error be corrected? (This is simple for the US.)

 

Lets start with this

.

Here, the question is NOT error IN/ON the 1cent. Question is error ABOUT 1cent.

Yes, there can be errors in/on 1cent, which can be design/engineering/mint/etc errors.
Such errors too should be corrected, but, they are secondary, insignificant errors, comparing the error ABOUT 1cent.

Most important error about 1cent is in the mathematics of 1cent coin. You don't have to be a math prof to see math error about the 1cent coin. You can see it in the result. Even math profs do not have 1cent in their pocket. Isn't this strange? If no, then, there is no error. If yes, there is error.

Ps: the math prof who has a coin collection and who we had a short email communication must have 1cent coin in his pocket now... however, this is not a one man work.

 

I see, there are 43631 members on this CT forum. Lets say half of them are active, viewing this forum at least occasionally.
After all, after mentioning the math here so many times, there was no any response about the math&coin here.
It seems that there is no any mathematican among the members here, at least, among active members...

I had invited that math prof in the US to this forum, but, he said he was busy with preparation for the next semester.
He is a kind of coin collector, collecting coins with the mathematicans&mathematics on the coins.
I had given the link to his webpage, with permission from him and he had kindly answered and permitted. Here is again:
http://web.olivet.edu/~hathaway/math_money.html - there is his email on this page.

@ACoinJob, I see, you are dealer/collector of small cents, maybe, you can send a coin or two to him, not necessarily has to be a coin with mathematican on it, even a small cent can be good enough for him to activate himself.

 

Guess, this is A disabled One...

 

This is "pocket coin":



You call it "pocket change"? No, this is not a "change", this is 1kurus coin, unchangable, and always in the pocket, constantly, because it is constant.

Why not keeping it elsewhere such as in the house, in the car, etc, but, only in the pocket? Because, It is a balance weight...
When you have other coins&notes in your pocket, but, when you don't have a one cent in your pocket you are unbalanced.

 

I'll be back, need to get my screwdriver, there seems to be some loose screws in this thread.

 

Hours days weeks have past, you've forgotten to fix it. Normal, another result of forgetting one cent in your pocket. When you don't forget all other coins&notes, but, when you forget to have a one cent coin in your pocket, you forget many things as well. You're not alone in that. They have been forgetting that for centuries...

Anyway, there is no loose screw in this thread. There was a derping derping derping Corgi here , but, he is being fixed already.

By the way, when you use the screwdriver, be careful. When you don't have one cent in your pocket you are unbalanced and you can cause an accident. Remember, one cent coin is also relevant to the "work safety". (yes, like a joke, but, no joke about that.)

 

Sometimes I put a whole roll of cents in my pocket as a counterbalance while drinking and operating with heavy equipment. Safety first.

 

That's it. Safety first. However, you caught my weak point. I'm not good at chemistry at all. I know a little only. For ex, when you mix some H and some O, it becomes H2O that's water. If you add some C into it, it becomes C2H6O, that's alcohol, doesn't it? Ok, I leave how the chemistry and the one cent are related to each other to you as it seems you know it better. (I hope that you won't say there is no relation between chemistry and money.)

 

It would depend on the number of molecules of H and O. H2O is water, H2O2 is hydrogen peroxide. For alcohol, carbon is added, but it takes many forms; CH3OH is methanol and C2H5OH is ethanol. I wouldn't drink either because they can kill you pretty quickly.

 

I stopped drinking years ago. Now, I'm taking my alcohol need from organic things such as cherry, grape, etc.

Ok, I see. You are "counting" molecules in the chemistry, in the same way of "counting" money, by "integers" (half molecule in a compound is not allowed, like half cent is not valid). However, you are doing that molecule counting when mixing/compounding molecules of different elements which can't be done in the money. (I just checked basic chemistry knowledge on the net now.) So, in the analogy to the chemistry, "money" is neither a compound, nor a mixture, nor a molecule, but, an "element". Since this element "money" has only one type of atom the one cent can be considered as "atom" or/of element "money", more specifically, "currency". So, I guess that the one cent can be a subject of physical chemistry. It is also subject of applied mathematics, in other words, mathematical physics rather than pure mathematics that's been being missed by mathematicans.

 

The C2H5OH just takes longer.

 

I was one of first internet users who used gopher, etc. in early 1990s., but, I've been away from the internet for almost a decade.
What is this? This likes this, that likes this, etc. under the posts? You like each others?

You don't like this?

***

One day the Hodja borrowed a huge pot from his neighbor. Next day he returned it with a smaller pot inside. When questioned about it, he said:

- Ah, I forgot to tell you. your pot gave birth to that small one while it was with us.

His neighbor was amazed, but gladly accepted both the explanation and the baby pot.

Some days later the Hodja again required the same large pot from his neighbor, who lent it to him with alacrity. But this time and although several days had passed by, there was no word from the Hodja. After waiting for a few more days, the neighbor went around to the Hodja's door.

- Hodja, what has happened to that pot I lent you? he asked.

- Why, didn't you hear the sad news? the Hodja replied. "Your pot died the very night I borrowed it from you!"

- Come now, Hodja, you don't expect me to believe that a pot can die, do you?

- Well, you are a funny one!" replied the Hodja. "You readily believed me when I said it had given birth to a baby pot, but now that I say it's dead, you have the effrontery to accuse me of lying!"

***

 

Jibberish. "DOLLARS & CENTS" Standard American Currency, whether you accept it or not.

 

Will "1kurus coin" buy a pair of shoes?