how do you spot fake Trade Dollars, anyway?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by ksparrow, Aug 1, 2009.

  1. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    Even if such an approach wise for newbies, what do you hope to accomplish by making a blanket statement you know damn well isn't true?
     
    Insider likes this.
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  3. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    Why don't you make sure to only quote parts of my post, to make it sound
    like I said something completely opposite to my meaning.
     
  4. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

     
  5. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Michael K asked: "Why don't you make sure to only quote parts of my post, to make it sound like I said something completely opposite to my meaning."

    EXCELLENT POINT @Michael K. Perhaps you would like to explain the meaning of your full post below. Especially the part in red which is complete :muted: :angelic::D

    QUOTE="Michael K, post: 2749839, member: 78298"]If it's not slabbed, it's fake. If it is slabbed, it might be fake.[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  6. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    Oh, so terribly sorry.... Here you go:

    Wow... you're right; that makes ALL the difference! Well, except for the fact it doesn't change a damned thing.

    Now, perhaps you could answer the question? Do you realize there's someone following this thread who once nearly tried to keep a perfectly genuine raw trade dollar, acquired via eBay, due to paranoia only made worse by other member's nonsense? I'm sure you do not wish to promote such a thing, but there can be real world consequences for "advice" posted here. So again, why make statements you know are not true when you could simply qualify it with an additional few words?
     
  7. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    Looks like a nice genuine example, XF-AU, and importantly does not appear to have been scrubbed or dipped to death. Great example for type. (and thanks for bumping my old thread up to get a gulp of oxygen.)
     
  8. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    ksparrow, posted: "Great example for type."

    The beauty of a coin is a personal thing; however, the more informed the person making the judgement of its beauty is and the closer it matches the judgement of a majority of informed parties who are his peers, the better. While we sometimes hold opinions back today so as not to hurt feelings or ruffle feathers, in the end it only causes problems down the line. All members get a participation trophy but not all coins are attractive or worthy of praise.

    IMO, that's the case with this dirty, environmentally damaged Trade dollar. Therefore, it is a very poor example of the type. If that coin has no sentimental value, I'll suggest that its owner find a nice, frosty, XF-AU coin in a TPGS slab and give the dealer his coin + some extra cash. Then he will truly own a great example for the type! :angelic:
     
  9. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    <Grumble, I wrote a response without realizing I wasn't logged in>

    Insider - Thank you for your honest opinion! I'm pretty thick-skinned, and wouldn't take anything like your comment as an insult or without merit. I do appreciate yours, and everyone's opinion.

    My main concern about the coin was authenticity, and at this point, it seems most feel it's authentic based on the limited info I'm able to provide at this point. Once I have the coin in hand, I'll take better pics, and post again.

    I bought this coin because my main objective was to own one. As much as I'd like to have a set, or even a premium example, that wasn't my goal. I don't have one, and wanted one that met some criteria. A) Authentic B) Not counterstamped C) not run over by a train D) not obviously or harshly cleaned (although most(?) coins of this vintage were probably cleaned at some point) D) affordable.

    I would love to have an AU58 example, but this coin was <$100, and as it seems to have met all of my criteria at the moment, it was a perfect coin at the time.

    Yes, there are prettier
    Yes, there are cleaner
    Yes, there are many with a better grade
    Yes, there are many other TD's I could have bought, but this one is going to keep me happy for quite some time.

    So there you have it. :)
     
    Insider likes this.
  10. davidh

    davidh soloist gnomic

    Here's the fake I recently bought (and returned). Even with the pictures shown I should have known better but the low price enticed me.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  11. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    There's usually a reason, and that's most often it. This one is pretty rough, though, but at least you got your money back. Thanks for posting.
     
  12. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    Forgot about this. Here's a follow up on my Trade Dollar purchase posted earlier.

    Got the coin, and well, it wasn't the coin in the photo. Just your average Chinese fake. Weight & diameter were off, and neither the obverse or reverse were of the 1877 variety.

    My first step was to photograph the 'coin' and submit along with a request for a refund to the seller and to ebay. I also called my local Secret Service office, and while they weren't familiar with Trade Dollars, they told me that if I was certain it was counterfeit to not return it, and to dispose of properly (stamp as copy, cut in half, etc.). Ebay initially was a bit on the stubborn side about the refund without returning the 'coin', but the seller (fortunately) refunded the full amount right away. I did leave scathing negative feedback for him first though, and he begged me to remove it, and I ignored his request.

    So, in the end, I got my money back, and I have a sample counterfeit Trade dollar in my collection, clearly marked as 'Fake'.
     
  13. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    Can't the Chinese ever get it right !
     
  14. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    Useful information about the secret service. Overall I don't think they have the time or resources to investigate issues with collector coins, but if they say not to return the fake, that provides additional weight with the seller and eBay.
    I sure hope not!
     
    rzage likes this.
  15. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Their word should really mean nothing in those instances. You could have no idea what you are talking about and buy TDNs collection and call them and say you bought a fake collection and they would tell you not to return it. It's just a standard line covering themselves that really means nothing from a random phone call.
     
  16. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    Just do your homework ! weight, size etc...
     
  17. Johndoe2000$

    Johndoe2000$ Well-Known Member

  18. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

  19. Al Foster

    Al Foster New Member

    Re: the 1875-cc Trade Dollar I/II shown above. I strongly believe it is also a fake.
    Here are my reasons:
    On the obverse:
    Can't see the edge so won't comment
    Denticles look weak and odd
    stars look bad i.e. out of its normal shape
    Olive branch is separated from the leaves
    The date is in a different location than my example and matches the location of the 1875-s Micro S which counterfeiters typically screw up
    On the Reverse:
    The cc is in a different location than on my example
    Denticles look weak
    All of the numbers don't look right check out the 9
    Some of the letters look off too
    The left wing top is typically flat and weakly struck here it isn't and that is a huge tell tale sight since this one is so low grade, the wrong obv & rev for the die marriage
    Discussion is welcomed
     
  20. serafino

    serafino Well-Known Member

    Great thread on Trade Dollars. I found one in a relatives' estate and I've learned a lot about the series.
     
  21. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    Post the one you found. They’re great coins
     
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