What's with all these mint marks?!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Roman Collector, Aug 27, 2017.

  1. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Sorry about the photo quality; it's a coin that definitely looks better in hand. Post anything you deem relevant.

    These early bronze centenionales of Gratian, Valens and Valentinian have an enormous array of mint marks, even from just a single mint. Reading about this example of a centenionalis of Gratian from Siscia, it seems nobody has figured out what all of the various markings mean.

    Sear V (p. 368) notes, "The series represented by this and the following type comprises the most complex sequencing of control-marks throughout the entire Roman Imperial coinage."

    RIC ix (pp. 137-38) similarly remarks, "The letters and signs in the field have not yet been explained; they are very complicated, and an added complication is the extra letter at the end of the mint-mark in the later portion of the issue."

    Gratian GLORIA ROMANORVM centenionalis Siscia.jpg
    Gratian, AD 367-383
    Roman Æ centenionalis, 1.75 g, 17.3 mm, 7h
    Siscia, AD 372-375
    Obv: D N GRATIANVS P F AVG, pearl-diademed, draped and cuirassed bust, right
    Rev: GLORIA RO-MANORVM, emperor advancing right, dragging captive by the hair with right hand and holding labarum in left; complex combination of mint marks:
    Gratian mint marks.JPG
    Refs: RIC ix, p. 147, 14c xxxvii; RCV 20065; Cohen 23

    And, in case you were wondering but don't have RIC, this is just half a page of five such pages -- for the Siscia mint alone!!

    Capture.JPG
     
    zumbly, Ajax, chrsmat71 and 6 others like this.
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  3. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Wild! A couple from Valentinian, both Siscia.

    Screen Shot 2017-08-27 at 11.00.40 AM.png
    Screen Shot 2017-08-27 at 11.00.58 AM.png
     
    Ajax, chrsmat71, Alegandron and 3 others like this.
  4. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    Nice coin.

    The only thing I can think of is how sometimes you'll buy a product and have a stamp on a tag inside that says something like "Approved by Inspector #5" or some such thing. I know cigar boxes for expensive cigars will sometimes include the name or number of the person in the field who Ok'd quality control of the leafs, the person who inspected the individual cigars, etc.

    Maybe that was the old Roman equivalent for that? A letter or symbol could indicate the specific workroom within the mint, and maybe another letter or symbol indicated who the die engraver was, or who was the quality control person overseeing that workshop, etc?
     
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  5. ro1974

    ro1974 Well-Known Member

    oke marks/ your coin is so ruled it is almost hard to see
     
  6. Youngcoin

    Youngcoin Everything Collector

    Very nice coin, very interesting images.

    Thanks,
    Jacob
     
  7. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I suspect Sallent is on the right track as to why there were so many mint marks.

    On one hand it's fun to speculate, but on the other caring about such things brings back shades of worrying whether a US coin is MS62 or MS63.

    @Roman Collector-- you're an erudite and well-spoken man. Do you have any aptitude for fiction? Find a way to make the mint marks into some sort of code (preferably relating to Christian dogma) and write your first novel. Stockpile the coins first though in anticipation of wildly increased demand :D.
     
  8. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I would consider these all reasonable ideas and disagree with TIF liking them to MS62/3 because I would like to know the true answer about the mintmarks and believe the best answer for the MS62/3 question is to put the thing in your pocket for an hour and make it an EF.
     
  9. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    You're correct... bad analogy. Comparing something which probably has an answer, albeit perhaps to forever be unknown, to an essentially subjective label doesn't make sense.
     
    Roman Collector likes this.
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