U.S. Mint Lawyer at My Table at Denver ANA

The whole thing boils down to gloating by the mint. They took them, because they could. How much was spent in taxpayer money so the mint could gloat?

 

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A lot of talk about the 1933 double eagles, that the average collector could never afford! What about the 1913 Liberty head nickels? They should be confiscated also, what gives an individual who worked at the mint the right to mint coins knowing that a new version of the nickel was being made.

 

And type III 1804 dollars, 1884 and 1885 Trade dollars, etc.

 

It's my belief that the 1933 double eagles were minted for regular issue. What about the 1913 Liberty Head nickels? They were produced by a worker after the mint knew that the new Indian head/Buffalo was confirmed. Then sold to the worker, (5 of them) by a supervisor, at face value. My resolve to this problem is to just mint more 1933 Double Eagles and 1913 Liberty head nickels for the average collector, problem solved. Auction them, hold a lottery to obtain one, or just sell them. Put my name in for one of each. Oh, by the way some new $4.00 gold pieces would be nice also.

 

Wow - very interesting views and what "We the People..." really means. The government consists of our elected representatives who pass laws on our behalf and then hire people to enforce, administer and so forth on our behalf.

For instance, like the 1933 gold double eagle, the government (or We the People) own the national parks and the gov't takes care of them on our behalf. While the parks belong to the people, you can't build your home on 'your' land. Just like that 1933 gold double eagle or the 1974 D aluminum cent, you can't pick it up and drop it into your collection just because it belongs to the 'people.' Like the national parks, the government becomes the caretaker for those items on our behalf. And rather than lock them away in a vault, as a collector might do, they put them on display so that "We the People" the real owners, can enjoy them from time to time.

Just try to imagine 250 million people trying to lay claim to a single item, or if we all wanted a summer cabin in Yellowstone. And if the gov't did put some of the the rare coins mentioned here up for auction, the money would just disappear into the general fund while the coin(s) would disappear in to the vault of some collector.

So as far as I'm concerned, "We the People" can/should keep them so from time to time I can go and visit/see/enjoy some of our coins.

If it makes you feel any better add a 1933 gold double eagle and a 1974 D aluminum cent to the list of coins in your collection, since after all we are all part owners to such coins.

 

Their existence really isn't a problem, but regardless of laws the bigger problem would be going back and minting more would just end up destroying collecting as a hobby entirely. Nothing would be able to be worth more than the metal content since you would never know when they were going to re-release something and collectors would just flee from the hobby in droves with that type of value loss.

Since the beginning trying to chase them down they've likely spent many many multiples of what their value would be in auctions.

Putting things in a museum is actually one of the best ways to make sure no one ever gets to see it. The Smithsonian literally has airplane hangers worth of stuff that has been donated that never gets displayed. Also we the people are not the ones who kept them

 

The law doesn't allow them to Mint a coin and post-date it.

 

I know that's why I said regardless of laws, though it has happened before with coins being minted in a year other than their date like the 1804 dollars

 

How about re-strikes? The mint hasn't done that in a long time.

 

I can see George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton and all the rest of our fore fathers rolling over in their graves at this. There would have been no United States, no Constitution, no Bill of Rights, no U.S. Mint, etc. It's bad enough so many today are trying to re-write history. I love my country and my coins, neither of which I would have if others had not rebelled against that "other" government. I never mentioned sedition or overthrow.

 

Maybe in 2033? I'll probably not be here to see it though. Or how about a special set of coins that never made it in a different composition?

 

In retrospect, my point was pretty-much worthless. If the Government wanted to mint a coin with any given date on it, they could. The enabling legislation would make the allowance for it.

 

If you really want to find the missing 33s, Just look in Rose Kennedy's glove drawer in Hyannisport.

 

Of stolen United States government property? A status a jury found by a preponderance of the evidence, by the way. Yes, absolutely I support the government's near ABSOLUTE right to seize such property. The only relevant question is "Why on earth don't you?" Are you some kind of anarchist or something?

 

That's an easy answer, because of how it was done. They seized it first then "proved" that was right later and only after a law suit was brought against them. More than 90% of people wouldn't have the means to sue to try and get their property back and would just lose whatever was seized without a fight. People oppose it for the same reason they oppose the growing power of the police to seize property and money and charge them with a crime that don't have to go to trial. Most people just don't have the ability to fight if something is confiscated from them.

The precedent of take first and figure it out later is a dangerous one for individuals property, had they had the trial first and then the coins were taken people may not have liked the decision but would not have had anywhere close to as strong of feelings about it. The feeling is as much if not more about how it was done then the final outcome. Now we have a precedent for it, generally precedents and that power gets expanded overtime not contracted and a lot of people would rather not have to rely on blind faith that that will be an exception and not the start of a growing ability.

 

It only happened post facto because someone was silly enough to argue that a thing which the government had not intended to, and specifically ordered via contemporary Executive action not to, be allowable in the public domain, and which had only entered the public domain via clandestine and illegal action, was somehow by virtue of existence in the public domain "legal" to own. The legality of the 1933 Eagle - which predated this Executive action and has therefore not been acted upon by the government - makes the point.

The corollary is that classified information which you're not authorized to have is somehow OK because you already have it. Possession is only nine-tenths of the law in fable.

 

I think there were 3 jars full of gold coins.

 

Not jars. The Saddle Ridge hoard was found in corroding metal CANS, similar in style to paint cans, but not gallon sized. There were two of one size plus a smaller one.

 

That's in a category all of it's own where it's understood that property rights do not apply and there is no question the classified information whether leaked or stolen has no business in random hands especially when they don't have the clearance for it. You'd be hard pressed to find people to argue that you should have the same rights for classified information as some coins

 

If restrikes were done, they'd be recognized as such. They would be valued considerably less than the originals. How much less would depend on how many were made and how well they were made.

Cal