An Ordinary Average Denarius

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by David Atherton, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I suppose this coin is not anything too exciting. However, I did have it saved in my eBay favourites for 2 years(!) before noticing last week that I had not made the purchase. The coin arrived over the weekend.

    D688a.JPG
    Domitian
    AR Denarius, 3.35g
    Rome mint, 89 AD
    RIC 688 (C2), BMC 163, RSC 255
    Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P VIIII; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.
    Rev: IMP XXI COS XIIII CENS P P P; Minerva stg. l., with spear (M4)
    Acquired from Numisbur (eBay), August 2017.

    In 88 and 89, due to increased military campaigns in Germania and Dacia, imperial acclamations were being awarded to Domitian at a quick pace culminating in a double triumph the Senate voted Domitian over the chatti and Dacians at the end of 89. The rapid succession of titles was meticulously recorded on his denarii. This denarius dates between mid September and 31 December 89. Domitian's double triumph was held while this issue was struck.

    It completes my set of Minerva types for Domitian's last issue of 89. During the 2 years this was saved in my eBay favourites I came across only one other example with this dating combination. Perhaps it isn't as 'common' as the other types in the series? Even something as seemingly uninteresting as this denarius has a story.

    Share your 'ordinary average' coins you like, despite their averageness.

     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
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  3. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    My Average ,ordinary, 13 in a dozen Domitian Minerva denarius:

    P1160728.JPG
     
  4. Deacon Ray

    Deacon Ray Artist & Historian Supporter

    It's a great denarius, David! Not ordinary at all. The portrait, goddess, and lettering are all centered nicely. I receive coins in the mail that I've forgotten that I've ordered occasionally. I've also found packages of coins ordered months ago and set aside because I didn't have time to open them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
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  5. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

  6. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    That is a nice Domitian. Nothing wrong with being "average".

    Here is my only Domitian, which I believe was struck in 87 AD.

    Domitian Minerva denarius.jpg
     
  7. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Excellent example you have there! BTW - Rome mint, 88 AD
    RIC 576 (C2), BMC 117, RSC 236
     
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  8. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Relatively few of us collect ancients 'by date'. Your coin is only ordinary if you ignore the dates on it making it what a US collector might call a 'key'. We have collectors new to ancients but experienced in modern who come over mystified why a specialist would want a coin so worn but still expect a slightly worn 'key' date Lincoln to sell for a premium over its mint state brother one year different.

    My example is a denarius of Septimius Severus from Emesa mint with legionary reverse. The coin is ordinary because of the small oval flan that loses quite a few letters of the legend.
    rg0610bb2377.jpg
    In comparison, the coin below is nice and round with full legends. It is made ordinary by just a touch of wear on the high spots.
    rg0600bb2090.jpg
    Obviously some would shun either coin for a higher grade coin of Septimius. Some might want a legionary type but see no difference in the two coins. To a specialist with interests matching mine, the first coin is equivalent to a 1909S VDB while the second is a plain 1909S. The added interest to only a few of us is the additional date device IICOS at the reverse right. At least my 'key' letters are big enough to see without glasses.

    I applaud your 'key' date Domitian even if my first thought may have been "what, another Minerva?" I do not speak the language of Domitian denarii but I appreciate that it exists and that you care. Congratulations of your set.

    My closest is a bit more worn TRP X IMP XXI CS XV with different pose. Unlike you, I have absolutely no idea why I bought the coin. There may not have been a reason. It came from an unillustrated Frank Robinson sale in 1998 which is toward the end of the time I bought coins from unillustrated lists. Those were times for the young and foolish (or, in my case, just foolish).
    rb1480bb1583.jpg
     
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  9. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    I like it!

    (I like Joe Walsh, too.)

    Here was my example of a Domitian/Minerva, from my old 12 Caesars set. It was a nice bright coin.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  10. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Thank you for your thoughts Doug. Although approaching this from slightly different eras, we understand each other.
     
  11. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Joe is OK. I'm not too familiar with his work other than the singles. As a child of the 90s I preferred Smash Mouth, but felt it didn't fit quite as well.



    Nice denarius BTW!
     
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  12. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    I LOVE all the 'average' coins posted!! Hmm, is that because more than half of my collection falls into that 'category'??

    Shifting gears, most recently I picked up this example, simply because the reverse made me chuckle a bit--- Asclepius as a veterinarian??;)


    [​IMG]

    Mysia, Parium. Severus Alexander. A.D. 222-235. Æ (21 mm, 5.43 g, 7 h). IMP CAES L SEP SEV ALEXANDER (S retrograde), laureate, draped and cuirassed bust of Severus Alexander right / DEO AES SVB C G I H [PAR] (S retrograde), Asclepius seated right, examining hoof of bull standing left. SNG BN -; Roma E28, 284. Dark brown patina with green overtones,

    sev Alex asclepius.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
  13. Nemo

    Nemo Well-Known Member

    Great pickup David. We all appreciate the specialists like you and Doug, who add the extra to the ordinary.

    Here is one of my most special average and ordinary coins, a half shekel of Tyre. Half shekels are not hard to find, especially in VF, off center reverse, small flan etc.

    What makes it special to me is LA date and FP monogram and the glossy, dark chocolate find patina. BMC Phoenicia page 250 #213 lists one Year 1 half shekel with M monogram. DCA lists this date as R3, the highest rarity rating. Unique with with FP monogram.
    halfshekelI.jpg
     
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  14. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    Here is an example of a coin I bought both because of the date and the slight difference in the theme on the obvere, as well as the distinctive portrait.

    To the ordinary collector, this denarius with a Serapis reverse would be no different than any other denarius of Caracalla with a Serapis reverse, except in this one he is holding the wreath with his hand in a lower position, as opposed to the much more common Serapis reverse where he is holding it with his arm raised just above the shoulder. A small detail, but noticeable to those who keep an eye out for rarer subtle variations.

    Second, the XX for 20 years on the throne means this coin was minted in the three or four months leading to his death, so you can narrow it down to a short period of production at the beginning of 217 AD.

    And last, Caracalla here looks quite normal, which is a refreshing departure from his usual constipated look.

    Were it not for those three details coming together, it would just have been a plain Caracalla Denarius.

    So basically a few details can make a plain denarius a little more interesting.

    Caracalla Serapis denarius.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
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  15. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    Immediately as I posted, this purchase came to mind. it seems to be rarely offered at auction, yet it's about as 'average' as they come;)

    thrace Byzantion demeter and posedon.jpg


    Thrace, Byzantion. Circa 240-200 BC, AR Tetradrachm, 26mm,12.4 gm; Athanaion, Magistrate

    Veiled and wreathed head of Demeter right. Poseidon seated right on rocks, holding trident and aphlaslton, monogram to left in exergue
     
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  16. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Thanks for that write up, David. I really appreciated the detail and the date range on Domitian's titles that you provided. I have a couple of very average denarii of Domitian with the Minerva standing reverse. The one on the left is one of the first ancients I ever purchased, in 1988. The one on the right I got this year, almost 30 years later. Apparently I never grew up:

    Domitian Minerva types (4).JPG

    I've never been able to fully attribute the one on the left because of missing legends. Both are pretty worn and difficult to figure out. This is the best I came up with:

    Domitian (81-96 A.D.)

    IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR [??] P [?] laureate head right / IMP X [??] [COS] [??] II CENS P P P, Minerva standing left with spear.

    The other one is worn, but I think I could make out this:

    Domitian (Sep. 13, 95 A.D.-Sep. 12, 96 A.D.)

    IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P XV, laureate head right / IMP XXII [COS XVII] CENS PPP, Minerva standing left w. spear. RIC 790

    I liked that the second example is so late in Domitian's reign (if my attribution's correct - corrections welcome). Just before the daggers plunged.
     
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  17. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    The first coin could be:

    Rome mint, 88-89 AD
    RIC 670 (C3), BMC 154, RSC 250
    Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P VIII; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.
    Rev: IMP XIX COS XIIII CENS P P P; Minerva stg. l., with spear (M4)

    Your second coin looks correctly attributed. Well done! If you really want a denarius struck just before the 'daggers plunged', look for one dated TR P XVI. They are extremely rare owing to the fact they were struck for just a few days between 14 and 18 September 96.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
  18. Nathan401

    Nathan401 Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    Your Domitian is great!! I hear and understand the "quality over quantity" theory, but personally I'd rather have 10 $50 coins than 1 $500 coin. More coins, more history, more things to research and learn!!
     
  19. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Thank you so much for your help with these, David. I doubt I'll get one of those "TR P XVI" examples unless I get very lucky. But it is nice to know a few are out there.
     
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  20. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I adhere to the 'whatever I can get' theory.
     
  21. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Completing a set with a perfectly nice "ordinary average" coin sounds like cause for celebration to me. Congrats!
     
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