Two similar coins. The same or not?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Topcat7, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    I have two (similar) coins - one that I believe that I have attributed correctly, and the other that I am having difficulty with.
    The first is a :-
    Mn. Aemilius Lepidus Denarius from 114 or 113 BC.
    The obverse shows 'Roma' with a laurel wreath, draped and wearing diadem. Roma before, and value behind.
    On the reverse we have three arches containing the letters 'L' 'E' 'P' (Lepidus?). On the arches we have a statue of a soldier on horse-back with spear. The legend appears to be MN (dot) AE (MI) L I O.

    Mn. Aemilius Lepidus 114-13 BC Denarius Crawford 2911; Aemilia 7; Syd. 554.jpg

    The second (unattributed) coin shows :-
    On the obverse 'Roma' (?) facing (R) wearing a 'winged helmet'.
    On the reverse we seem to have the same detail as on the Mn. Aemilius Lepidus coin, including the 'L' 'E' 'P' (Lepidus?) in the arches.

    Aemilius LepidusDenarius Rome114-113BC.jpg

    I have searched a number of databases but I have not been able to come up with a coin of Mn. Aemilius Lepidus that shows 'Roma' wearing a winged helmet.
    Does this mean that 'Roma' is someone else ?
    Notwithstanding the (similar) reverse, does this mean that the (second) coin is not Mn. Aemilius Lepidus ?

    Can anyone help me to attribute this second coin, please?
     
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  3. alde

    alde Always Learning

    I don't have an explanation for you but that sure is interesting. I hope someone has an answer for you.
     
  4. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I will see what I can find. But in the meantime, I have another coin with a similar but different reverse:
    L Marcus Philippus.jpg
    L MARCUS PHILIPPUS ROMAN REPUBLIC; GENS MARCIA
    AR Denarius
    OBVERSE: Diademed head of Ancus Marcius right, lituus hehind, ANCVS below
    REVERSE: Equestrian statue right on an arcade of five arches; flower below horse, AQVA MAR between arches, PHILLIVS behind
    Rome 56 BC
    3.06g
    Cr425/1, Marcia 28, Syd 919
     
    Topcat7 and Andres2 like this.
  5. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    The second coin looks like a hybrid, with the reverse the same as that of your first coin, and the obverse that of a different issue. The symbol behind the helmeted head of Roma reminds of the distinctive "quadrangular device" found on Crawford 299/1a: https://cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=200987

    Edited to add:
    I found your second coin type on Forvm fake reports noted as a modern pressed forgery (second coin in the picture below):
    00NFSL.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  6. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I can't seem to put my finger on it any more than you were. I wonder if this is a muling of two coins?
     
    Alegandron likes this.
  7. Volodya

    Volodya Junior Member

    Zumbly nailed it of course. If this weren't a known fake from modern dies, the next question to ask would be the weight. A hybrid like this, if it's ancient at all, is likely to be a plated ancient counterfeit.
     
  8. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    Thanks @zumbly
    I did look there (three times) but nothing came up for me. My criteria must have been wrong.
     
  9. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Hybrid RR fourrees are common but I am not aware of solid silver hybrids from this period. Are they common? Known? It would seem that there might have been two types in production at once making hybrids possible but I have not seen them.
     
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