Not Genuine

In PCGS speak what "exactly" does the No Grade 90 "Not Genuine" mean (other than I got screwed). It seems with all the other "no grade" catagories that one of the other 9 catagories would have to apply. I understand they know their grading business but why not give some additional and better detail other than "not genuine". Oh well, had to vent......



"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."

 

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If they called it not genuine it is a counterfeit.

 

Thanks for the response. Why the hel_ don't they just say counterfeit.

Thanks Zaneman

 

Could you please post pics of the coin and the PCGS explanation ( bodybag) ? THANKS !!

 

monty:

Not Genuine generally means that it is a fake.

 

Here are the photos

 

the reverse doesn't look quite right and the weight could be off. we can't see the edge from the pics but THEY might have spotted something to raise the red flag. jmo

grizz

 

1894 Morgan...ouch that is an expensive bodybag. I hope you get a refund on the purchase. If possible, I would be interested in seeing a close-up of the mintmark area because in the picture provided, it appears there is a "smudge" above the letters D and O in DOLLAR that might indicate an altered mintmark.

 

i would also like to see larger photos of the coin. i hope you can get your money back...you have the best cause for refunds on fraudulent items. larger photos could help us see what the tip offs to detection were. thank you for sharing this with us and you have my sympathies...good luck...steve

 

Not genuine does not necessarily mean counterfeit or rather it could be a altered coin, which is more likely what is in in this context.

 

That goes back to my original question if it is altered why doesn't PCGS say altered using catagory--Not Graded 94 (altered surface) instead of just throwing out the Not Genuine catch all term.

Expensive BB is right, but I won't let this die if I have to spend the amount I paid for the coin. The seller has promised a refund, we shall see.

Upon looking at the "smudge" mentioned under a glass I too agree that the original mint mark has been ground.

If I can blow the reverse larger I will post it later today.

As someone mentioned last night on another thread "let the buyer beware" so true but in some cases the seller should beware also. What is illegal is illegal and I feel he knew this (altered coin) up front, although swears he did not.

Thanks for all your responses.



"What goes around comes around"

 

monty, I believe it's just marketing. Thing is, if you add too much jargons, it will confuse the market. What's next, counterfeit, fake, altered, hammered, yes, we can go on adding various combination of alterations/fakes, etc but honestly, I believe it's much easier to just classify it as "NOT genuine". As well as, having the negative word NOT will make the buyer watch out much easier.

 

probably because "Not Genuine" and Counterfeit believe it or not do NOT mean the same thing. It is a semantic difference but a legally important one. PCGS is rendering an OPINION. When they say Not Genuine, they are saying that in or opinion we can not confirm that this is the genuine article. It is slightly vague, and leaves some "wiggle room" because after all they could be mistaken. Saying that it IS counterfeit is making a pronouncement. You are not saying what something Might be, you are declaring what it IS! And that declarative statement could get them in trouble if it turns out they were wrong and someone was injured financially because of that error. On their earliest bodybags most of the services DID use the term counterfeit. But it was quickly changed to Not Genuine, probably on the advice of their lawyers.

In short thy are saying what it isn't, not what it IS. Safer that way.

 

Monty, I believe your coin most likely has a removed mintmark. PCGS typically reserves the grade of 94 (altered surfaces) for coins that have been overdipped, waxed, hazed etc.

 

Ouch... I'll go along with the gang, removed mintmark most likley.

Also, just out of curiosity, where in AZ ?

 

art splane, i started collecting morgan silver dollars a month ago, i purchased 2 slabbed morgans with a stated grade of ms 66, the pictures on ebay do not always give you a true picture of the coins grade. when the coins were received i reviewed they with my mag glass to find the 3 coins are over graded by 11 the 3 coins are either au 55 or au 58.

this is a heads up to those who purchase coins on ebay to pay great attention to the coins grade and not the slab companies opinion. nac grading company is numismatic authentication company the coins i purchased were sold by coinmady, real name is keith zerby he is in pennsylvania.

 

Keith Zerby

personal attack removed

 

I googled Numismatic Authentication Company and found this guide on E-Bay that pretty much sums it up.

http://reviews.ebay.com/NAC-NUMISMATIC-AUTHENTICATION-COMPANY_W0QQugidZ10000000004895610

A word of advice, please stick to buying PCGS and NGC graded coins only on E-Bay unless you are confident that you can accurately grade the coin with photos provided.

 

mrhofeld:
welcome to the forum.
And try to post a link to his auctions.
Sorry to hear about your troubles.

 

PCGS says "No Decision" on coins they cannot authenticate and "Not Genuine" on coins that they believe are counterfeit. My last submission included some of both. They refund the grading fee on No Decision coins, but not on Not Genuine.