German Fourree 1874 Five Marks

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Theodosius, Aug 6, 2017.

  1. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    I got this coin from a German relative some years ago and never quite knew what to make of it. Now I am convinced it is a Fourree, a silver clad copper core created to cheat on the silver content. If anyone knows any different I would like to find out.

    Someone must have been suspicious a while back and drove a square nail or punch through it. This caused the copper to be exposed around the hole and caused the silver cladding on one side to delaminate. There is a bit of copper showing on one edge, which might have tipped off the nail pounder and prompted them to do a more drastic quality check.

    German 1874 10 Marks Fourree 1a.jpg

    German 1874 10 Marks Fourree 1Da.jpg

    It is an interesting piece and I am happy to have it.

    John
     
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  3. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    That is an interesting piece. Seems much better made than a lot of the contemporary counterfeit Seated Liberty coins that were made for nefarious purposes in this country around the same time.
     
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  4. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    Sure looks like official dies were used to strike it. Maybe someone at the mint was in on it?
     
  5. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    Looks like a genuine coin was destroyed, the obverse/reverse panels laid onto a copper core, and the remaining silver kept as the counterfeiter's profit.
    This is a less common form of contemporary forgery. It's a shame it's been busted, I love and collect pieces such as this :)
     
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  6. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    Seems like it would be difficult to cut the top and bottom off a coin without destroying them, I wonder what type of machine is used to do it?

    It would explain why this is such an authentic looking coin apart from the hole and delamination.

    John
     
  7. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    It would also seem as if the effort and time would not be worth the gain. The coin has a little over 0.8 oz of silver so the gain would be less than half an ounce.
     
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  8. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    The interior of the coin looks like white metal. If I am not mistaken some silver compound in powder form is used to glue the silver wrapper to the copper core. Around the edges of the hole you can definitely see there is copper inside. You can also see a distinct edge band around the outside of the core.

    I will try to get some better pictures of the structure of this piece.
     
  9. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    Half ounce of silver would be worth quite a bit to the peasantry at that time. Also, this coin would have come across as perfectly genuine until it was weighed. Making outright debased or off-metal fakes is probably more profitable, but also runs a higher risk of getting caught. This is just an example of the timeless game of risk and reward.
     
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  10. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    My guess would be a thin saw blade and a lot of elbow grease :)
     
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  11. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    I received my Krause 1801-1900 catalog today and looked up this "coin".

    It is a fouree of a Bavaria, KM# 896. It should weigh 27.78g.

    I weighed it at 23.39g. Hmmm, could the hole account for the missing weight?

    Um, the hole is 4mm square and 2 mm thick. That is .032 cm^3 * 8.96 g/cm^3 for pure copper equals only 0.286g. A whole lot less than the 4.39g that is missing.

    If the coin was pure copper it would weigh 20.74g.

    So it is some hybrid of silver and copper, as you can see from the pictures.
     
  12. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    I really want to add one of this type to my CCC collection. Hopefully I come across one in a less damaged condition, though they are not at all easy to find in good shape.
     
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