2000 Years Ago An Engraver Was Having A Bad Day

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by David Atherton, Aug 2, 2017.

  1. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Either the die engraver was hungover or had his mind on other things.

    T359 error.JPG T359 error2.jpg
    Divus Vespasian
    AR Denarius, 2.92g
    Rome Mint, 79-80 AD
    RIC T359a (C), BMC T124, RSC 149
    Obv - DIVVS AVGVSPVS (sic) VESPASIANVS; Head of Vespasian, laureate, r.
    Rev - Column mounted by shield and topped by urn, flanked by two laurels; in field, EX, on shield, S C
    Ex Private Collection.

    A Divus Vespasian denarius struck under Titus with an interesting engraver's error in the obverse legend - 'P' instead of 'T' in AVGVSTVS. Very likely unique to this one die. The style and weight are good - so, an official product of Rome.

    I wonder how many coins were struck with the error die until it was noticed?

    Post your error coins!
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
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  3. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    Nice error! It's always fun finding these little things, and they make finding die matches that much easier. I had to compete with Doug for the one below, though apparently we were the only ones who wanted it. Below the prow reads FRVGF instead of FRVGI. It's not listed as a variety of the type in Crawford but style and weight are consistent and after some careful searching I found a double die match in the ANS collection that proves it wasn't just some artifact of tooling or corrosion or anything like that.
    cr340.4-var-FRVGF.JPG
     
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  4. nicholasz219

    nicholasz219 Well-Known Member

    Neat stuff! I like little details like that when you find them on an otherwise normal coin.
     
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  5. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Ew! PUS!

    That's a neat detail I might've overlooked the first three or four times I looked at the coin.
     
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  6. alde

    alde Always Learning

    Ah, too much vino. I wonder if when the saw the error they had a good laugh or a flogging?
     
  7. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Neat coin
     
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  8. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Maybe first one, then the other!

    Or maybe one person did both the laughing and the flogging!

    Reminds me of a certain patriotic US Civil War token that has a spelling error.

    It's supposed to say, "THE FLAG OF OUR UNION / IF ANYBODY ATTEMPTS TO TEAR IT DOWN / SHOOT HIM ON THE SPOT".

    But what actually got engraved was, "... SHOOT HIM ON THE SPOOT".

    Which makes me wonder if the errant engraver got himself a boot to the spoot, whatever that is!

    (They probably weren't doing too much laughing at the time, with all this talk of shooting people. Ever noticed how folks tend to take things rather seriously in a time of civil war? Funny thing, that. Or ... not.)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Images: civilwartokens.com.

     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  9. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    PS- and circling back around to the original topic, I'll bet Vespasian himself would've laughed, since he's recorded as having had a sense of humor, even on his deathbed.

    You've gotta admire that in a person who's the ruler of the known world.

    Then again, I suppose such people can afford to have a sense of humor. But it's surprising how often they don't.
     
  10. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Knowing what we know of Vespasian, I would suspect the former! However, the coin was struck by Titus, the Roman JFK, so I'm sure the engraver slept well that night.
     
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  11. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Very neat, David... I love these minor mess-ups at the mint :).

    Missing an "S" on the reverse:
    Antoninus Pius - Denarius Minerva.jpg ANTONINUS PIUS
    AR Denarius. 3.2g, 19.5mm. Rome mint, AD 138. RIC 9 var. (rev legend). O: IMP T AEL CAES HADRI ANTONINVS, bare head right. R: AVG PIVS P M TR P COS DE (sic!) II, Minerva standing left, holding Victory in her right hand and shield with her left; spear leaning on her left arm.

    SEV SEV!:
    Septimius Severus - Eastern Cereri Frvg.jpg
    SEPTIMIUS SEVERUS
    Scarce. AR Denarius. 2.95g, 17.5mm. Eastern mint, AD 194-195. RIC 370 var. (obv legend). O: IMP CAE L SEV (sic!) SEV-PERT AVG COS II, laureate head right. R: CERERI-FRVG, Ceres standing left, holding wheat ears and long torch.
    Ex Curtis L. Clay Collection

    LIBERATAS??:
    Gordian III - Liberalitas error 1066.jpg
    GORDIAN III
    AR Antoninianus. 4.02g, 22mm, Rome mint, early AD 239 - early 240. RIC IV 67 var. (rev legend - not noted in RIC); cf. Gemini Auction IV (8 Jan 2008) Lot 460 (same rev die legend error). O: IMP GORDIANVS PIVS FEL AVG, radiate, draped, cuirassed bust right. R: LIBERATAS (sic!) AVG III, Liberalitas standing front, head left, holding counter in right hand and cornucopiae in left hand.
     
  12. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Sometimes we have errors that are errors but some are more signs that the mint workers were Latin as a second language at best and possibly just illiterate copying from some original. Greek speakers often had trouble with the letter R which does not exist in Greek. The #1 'error' in my book is the Septimius Severus Emesa mint reverse which regularly reads SPQR OPTIMO PBINCIPI substituting B for R but only in one case. These are common.
    rg2430b01220lg.jpg

    Much more scarce are the coins that spell the word correctly.
    rg2470b01566lg.jpg

    There are other coins of this mint that make the same substitution. Here is FORT BEDVC for FORT REDVC. Again the substitution only hit the second R with the first being normal.
    rg1800bb1477.jpg

    My favorite is this Domna with two B's: VENEBI VICTBICI for VENERI VICTRICI.
    rk5220b00031lg.jpg
    Two dies show the same error of L for the second I but the other two I's are normal. INVICTO IMP
    rg1820bb0335.jpg rg1830bb0955.jpg

    Sometimes we catch our errors and fix them. Here is a C cut over the error V.
    rg1910bb0626.jpg

    There must be thousands of such errors.
     
  13. ro1974

    ro1974 Well-Known Member

    Nice big urn:happy:
     
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  14. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

  15. Okidoki

    Okidoki Well-Known Member

    Nice David.
    PHRYGIA, Trajanopolis. Hadrian AE 15 Athena standing
    Reference. Very rare.
    cf. RPC III, 2471;Cf. Varbanov 2705.

    http://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/3/2471/16/

    Obv: KAICAP AΔPIANOC.
    Laureate bust right, slight drapery on far shoulder.

    Rev: TPIIANOΠOΛITΩN (sic).
    Athena standing right, holding spear and resting hand upon shield.

    2.42 gr
    15 mm
    7h

    Note.
    Misspelling of the ethnic on the reverse.
    481 P Hadrian RPC 2471.jpg
     
  16. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    You have made a very good point about these errors being more prone at certain times and places. During the Flavian period at Rome these types of mistakes were quite rare. I would assume during that time most of the engravers at the Rome mint must have spoke Latin(?).
     
  17. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    Neat error David and you've had an eagle's eye to spot it

    P ;)
     
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  18. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    You're right about it being an error that doesn't readily stand out ... which makes me wonder just how many coins from this die survived unnoticed.
     
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  19. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio

    I have a three / four dot coin.
    5.12.16 006.JPG
    5.12.16 008.JPG
     
  20. Nemo

    Nemo Well-Known Member

    Very nice David, great eyes as always.

    Edit: DIVVS AVGVSPVS really made me laugh!:D
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
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