Another cleaning thread...

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Youngcoin, Jul 28, 2017.

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  1. Youngcoin

    Youngcoin Everything Collector

    Thanks guys and very true super Dave it's just I don't have much of them and it's very hard for me to get the money to order them I mow lawns and stuff like that but that doesn't make much and it goes right in my bank and I don't get an allowance or paid for household chores so it's pretty much money I find or trade for. And any holiday or birthday money goes in the bank too its for my future so I can't complain.
     
    Youngcoin, Jul 29, 2017
    #21 + Quote Reply
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  3. Hiddendragon

    Hiddendragon World coin collector

    Can you explain to me the thinking behind the obsession with making the staples totally flat? I have thousands of coins in 2x2s with a regular cheap stapler and I've never had problems, so what's the issue we're trying to avoid here?
     
    Hiddendragon, Jul 29, 2017
    #22 + Quote Reply
  4. Youngcoin

    Youngcoin Everything Collector

    Not sure guess I'll find out when the cardboard 2x2 holders come in the mail.


    Thanks,
    Jacob
     
    Youngcoin, Jul 29, 2017
    #23 + Quote Reply
  5. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    The regular cheap staplers do the job, but have the potential of scratching the coin behind it when putting it in or removing it from the box. If you keep them in pages, then it's moot, but I keep the bulk of my coins in boxes like these, and there is always the chance.

    The flat clinch simply reduces the chance of the scratch from happening, without having to use pliers. I guess it just depends how neurotic you are! LOL
     
    Beefer518, Jul 29, 2017
    #24 + Quote Reply
  6. Hiddendragon

    Hiddendragon World coin collector

    I see. I keep mine in pages so that's why I've never noticed the issue.
     
    Hiddendragon, Jul 30, 2017
    #25 + Quote Reply
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Well, I don't know who taught you Bill, but you and I both grew up in the same age, you're only 2 years younger than me. And that "age" we're referring to would be the 1960's. And in the 60's cleaning your coins was the accepted practice - the norm - just about everybody did it.

    But apparently, like you, my grandfather taught me from the age of 7 that cleaning your coins was not a good thing, and that you should not do it.

    However, even that far back, when someone said "cleaning" what they really meant was "harshly cleaning", to say cleaning was just them using the contraction of the phrase. It was harsh cleaning that was bad, not cleaning. Even back then coins could be cleaned, if they were cleaned properly, and nobody had a problem with it.

    It's the same thing today. The 1960's was the beginning of the change. For literally centuries collectors would routinely get their coins out and wipe them all down with rags or cloths. And they would do this on a regular basis. It was their idea of what they were supposed to do. It was their idea of how they were supposed to take care of their coins. But as I said in the 60's that began to change.

    There were youngsters like you, and me, who were taught that "cleaning" your coins was not a good thing, that it was in fact a bad thing. But back then there were only a few of us like that, most collectors went right on doing it as they always had for the last 500 years. But eventually wisdom prevailed and the tables turned. Collectors, for the most part, stopped using harsh cleaning techniques on their coins. But it took a couple of decades for that to happen. And the mantra became - DO NOT "clean" your coins ! But they were still using the contraction. The contraction, cleaning, had become the accepted term, when what they really meant was "harshly cleaning".

    Also, even in the 1960's, and long before that, dipping your coins was a perfectly acceptable practice - hardly anybody had a problem with it as long as it was done correctly. So was doing things like rinsing them off in distilled water - nobody had a problem with that either - because it did not hurt or damage the coin in any way. But what is dipping or rinsing your coins if it not cleaning them ? It is in fact cleaning them for that is exactly what you are doing. But it is not harshly cleaning them. That's the difference.

    An again, it's the same thing today. Knowledgeable people KNOW the difference. They know that it is perfectly acceptable, perfectly fine because it does no harm, to "clean" your coins - as long as you do it correctly.

    Think of it like this Bill, you wash your hands all the time don't you ? In fact you wash your whole body all the time - you clean your body. But you do it correctly, because if you do it correctly it does no harm to your body. But now imagine if you took steel wool and washed/cleaned your body with it ? Of course you'd never do that. Why ? Because you know it would be the incorrect way, your body would look like raw hamburger if you cleaned it with steel wool. It would have been harshly cleaned.

    Same thing with coins. Do it correctly and there is no harm. Do it incorrectly and there is definitely harm. So yes, you can "clean" your coins. But you cannot "harshly clean" your coins.

    So no, it's not hypocritical, it's just common sense.
     
    GDJMSP, Jul 30, 2017
    #26 + Quote Reply
  8. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    ...and common sense is a rare commodity...
     
    Kentucky, Jul 30, 2017
    #27 + Quote Reply
  9. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    I can't help it, as I've spent more than 60 years associating with "Dealers" who constantly talk about grading results after altering coins through "conservation cleaning" or "dips".

    I recently as part of a long term TPG "grading study" removed 5 "mint state" scarce date Liberty Double Eagles from "top tier" TPG slabs, submitting all to one of the top two TPG. One of the coins was slabbed as MS details - scratched, with the others being straight graded MS61-63.

    I received a notice from my submitting "Dealer" that the scratched coin was recommended to have a "residue cleaning". I thought this should be interesting, as it didn't "grade" previously, and agreed to the cleaning.

    I received notification this week that the MS61-63 previously top tier TPG graded coins are all being returned as AU58 graded coins, and the cleaned - scratched coin is being returned as a MS61 graded coin.

    The coins are going to CAC with others for review. Those not receiving a "bean" (less the scratched coin) are to be removed from their slabs and submitted to the 2nd premier TPG for a final documented grade.

    Coin value may be determined by the "cleaners".

    JMHO
     
    imrich, Jul 30, 2017
    #28 + Quote Reply
  10. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    om.png
     
    Kentucky, Jul 30, 2017
    #29 + Quote Reply
  11. Youngcoin

    Youngcoin Everything Collector

    Yep had to Google that one I get it now.


    Thanks,
    Jacob
     
    Youngcoin, Jul 30, 2017
    #30 + Quote Reply
  12. SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom

    SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom Well-Known Member

    I guess I am not KNOWLEDGABLE? Pffft. The air thin up there?
     
    SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom, Aug 5, 2017
    #31 + Quote Reply
  13. mrjason71

    mrjason71 Active Member


    imrich: I am curious what happened with your "grading study". You posted about it in July so should be ok for me to ask, correct? Not a dead thread yet, is it? Did you receive back from CAC? Did they go to second grading service? Etc...
     
    mrjason71, Nov 7, 2017
    #32 + Quote Reply
  14. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    The "study" is a long term multi-year on-going process consisting of many coins which basicly show the same results of other independent studies, as that reported in the May 26, 2003 edition of Coin World. Individuals whined that those past studies weren't of large enough or diverse enough samplings. It's believed that a sampling no larger than a daily eBay Numismatic offering will prove the proposition of inequal grading standards. The proposition that couldn't be proven is what could happen when an expensive coin is believed "trashed" by a details slab, and then resubmitted to receive a grade increasing the same TPG publicly stated value (i.e. "price guides") multiple times.

    The studies have shown that grading reliability shouldn't be expected when using a TPG. It's believed there aren't uniform grading standards even within an individual firm for the same coin submitted repeatedly, much less between the two "premier" TPG firms. Independent published studies confirm what a daily study of eBay offerings will affirm.

    Recent inter-linked posts of mine (#38, HEY GUYS TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK) is an example that may show what can happen when there aren't checks/balances on a subjective system without objective standards.

    I believe any objective individual can locate similar possibilities in daily public auctions.

    The coins mentioned, questioned in the previous thread were handled as stated, with results as generally stated/expected for the individual circumstances.

    JMHO
     
    imrich, Nov 7, 2017
    #33 + Quote Reply
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