A big one from the wish list: Siculo-Punic tetradrachm

lordmarcovan · Jun 1, 2017

Stunning.

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

TIF · Jul 15, 2017

With the rash of people trying their hands at coin videos, I thought this one deserved a shot. There is definitely room for improvement (wow, my hands are a bit shaky this morning!).

I don't know much about video editing but it looks like a worthwhile thing to learn more about.

PMONNEY · Jul 15, 2017

TIF said: ↑

View attachment 631584
SICILY, Entella. Punic issues
c. 300-289 BCE; AR tetradrachm, 24 mm, 16.8 gm, 12h)
Obv: head of Melquart-Herakles right, wearing lion skin
Rev: head of horse left; astragalos (cut over poppy) to left, palm tree to right, Punic MHSBM (approximate meaning is "quaestors" or financial controllers) below
Ref: Jenkins, Punic 366 (O115/R298), series 5b
Ex Gorny & Mosch 138 (7 March 2005), lot 33

This and other Punic tetradrachms have been on my wish list since I saw my first examples. It's hard to say why this type became such a must-have since I didn't know much about the circumstances of the coin. Actually, I guess it's not hard to say why: it's a beautiful coin. Sometimes that's reason enough .

I assumed there would be extensive and colorful history to go with this coin, but that seems not to be the case. After winning the coin I began searching for interesting tidbits for a writeup. A first step for such things is always to check auction catalogs, especially old and higher-end catalogs which sometimes have nice blurbs that add interest. I checked all of my catalogs and online catalogs; checked various general and Greek numismatic books in my growing library. Zip, zilch, nada. No amusing anecdotes, no tantalizing tie-ins with history. Hmm.

But... Digital Library Numis to the rescue! All four parts of "Coins of Punic Sicily" are there, yay!!

Some of my questions are answered in those articles:

Hoard evidence is what places these coins at Entella, which was under the control of Carthage at that time. The Punic Wars were still three or four decades away but there were ongoing problems with Agathokles. Perhaps these coins were used to pay troops and other costs of battle.

The two main variations of this coin ("quaestors" issues and "people of the camp" issues) were probably issued concurrently and from the same location, although the reasons are cloudy. It might indicate that there was more than just army encampments there-- the Carthaginian state was doing more than just paying the army.

The head of Tanit/horse head tetradrachms immediately preceded these coins. While this new obverse undoubtedly copies Alexander III tetradrachms, Punic Melqart had already been assimilated into Greek Herakles so the Carthaginians weren't abandoning their Punic iconography... they were just making coins that blended in better with the region. Alex III tets had already become extremely well known throughout the Mediterranean.

I mistakenly thought there were hundreds of dies for the entire emission, since the Entella tetadrachms I was drawn to all had high die numbers. However, the die numbers for the series begin at 86 for the obverse and 227 for the reverse (earlier numbers are for earlier Punic coins in Jenkins' scheme). The "quaestors" tets have only 21 obverse and 81 reverse dies; the "people of the camp" tets have 20 obverse and 39 reverse dies. That makes more sense, because it's not like you see these on every numismatic corner

Anyway, this minutia is probably pretty boring to most of you. If it isn't, you might want to read the Jenkins articles.

More importantly to me is that this was struck with one of my favorite dies for the series. I don't always have to have highly artistic coins in relatively high grade (have you seen all of my grungy but beloved coins of Roman Egypt? ), but for this one I held out. I studied archives and made note of my favorite dies. For the obverse, die 115 was in the top tier and reverse die 298 is interesting because it was recut. I was happy to see this coin at auction.

Speaking of the reverse die, it began life with a poppy in the left field but was later recut into an astragalos (knuckle bone; a gaming and/or fortune telling device).

Here's the a coin struck with the same reverse die as mine, before recutting. That's a poppy in the left field. Note that the obverse die is also the same as my coin.

View attachment 631612
(from CNG's archives)

...

Artistic dies, good centering, good metal, good strike, little wear... happy sigh

Please feel free to add you Punic coins or related issues. Coins of Agathokles from around the same time are also welcome.
Click to expand...

TIF said: ↑

View attachment 631584
SICILY, Entella. Punic issues
c. 300-289 BCE; AR tetradrachm, 24 mm, 16.8 gm, 12h)
Obv: head of Melquart-Herakles right, wearing lion skin
Rev: head of horse left; astragalos (cut over poppy) to left, palm tree to right, Punic MHSBM (approximate meaning is "quaestors" or financial controllers) below
Ref: Jenkins, Punic 366 (O115/R298), series 5b
Ex Gorny & Mosch 138 (7 March 2005), lot 33

This and other Punic tetradrachms have been on my wish list since I saw my first examples. It's hard to say why this type became such a must-have since I didn't know much about the circumstances of the coin. Actually, I guess it's not hard to say why: it's a beautiful coin. Sometimes that's reason enough .

I assumed there would be extensive and colorful history to go with this coin, but that seems not to be the case. After winning the coin I began searching for interesting tidbits for a writeup. A first step for such things is always to check auction catalogs, especially old and higher-end catalogs which sometimes have nice blurbs that add interest. I checked all of my catalogs and online catalogs; checked various general and Greek numismatic books in my growing library. Zip, zilch, nada. No amusing anecdotes, no tantalizing tie-ins with history. Hmm.

But... Digital Library Numis to the rescue! All four parts of "Coins of Punic Sicily" are there, yay!!

Some of my questions are answered in those articles:

Hoard evidence is what places these coins at Entella, which was under the control of Carthage at that time. The Punic Wars were still three or four decades away but there were ongoing problems with Agathokles. Perhaps these coins were used to pay troops and other costs of battle.

The two main variations of this coin ("quaestors" issues and "people of the camp" issues) were probably issued concurrently and from the same location, although the reasons are cloudy. It might indicate that there was more than just army encampments there-- the Carthaginian state was doing more than just paying the army.

The head of Tanit/horse head tetradrachms immediately preceded these coins. While this new obverse undoubtedly copies Alexander III tetradrachms, Punic Melqart had already been assimilated into Greek Herakles so the Carthaginians weren't abandoning their Punic iconography... they were just making coins that blended in better with the region. Alex III tets had already become extremely well known throughout the Mediterranean.

I mistakenly thought there were hundreds of dies for the entire emission, since the Entella tetadrachms I was drawn to all had high die numbers. However, the die numbers for the series begin at 86 for the obverse and 227 for the reverse (earlier numbers are for earlier Punic coins in Jenkins' scheme). The "quaestors" tets have only 21 obverse and 81 reverse dies; the "people of the camp" tets have 20 obverse and 39 reverse dies. That makes more sense, because it's not like you see these on every numismatic corner

Anyway, this minutia is probably pretty boring to most of you. If it isn't, you might want to read the Jenkins articles.

More importantly to me is that this was struck with one of my favorite dies for the series. I don't always have to have highly artistic coins in relatively high grade (have you seen all of my grungy but beloved coins of Roman Egypt? ), but for this one I held out. I studied archives and made note of my favorite dies. For the obverse, die 115 was in the top tier and reverse die 298 is interesting because it was recut. I was happy to see this coin at auction.

Speaking of the reverse die, it began life with a poppy in the left field but was later recut into an astragalos (knuckle bone; a gaming and/or fortune telling device).

Here's the a coin struck with the same reverse die as mine, before recutting. That's a poppy in the left field. Note that the obverse die is also the same as my coin.

View attachment 631612
(from CNG's archives)

A real beauty a collector's dream, more odestly, this is my favourite Carthaginian horse: !
...

Artistic dies, good centering, good metal, good strike, little wear... happy sigh

Please feel free to add you Punic coins or related issues. Coins of Agathokles from around the same time are also welcome.
Click to expand...

PMONNEY · Jul 15, 2017

This is a real beauty ! More modestly, this is my favourite Carthaginian horse:

gregarious · Jul 15, 2017

TIF said: ↑

With the rash of people trying their hands at coin videos, I thought this one deserved a shot. There is definitely room for improvement (wow, my hands are a bit shaky this morning!).

I don't know much about video editing but it looks like a worthwhile thing to learn more about.

Click to expand...

...a star is born..

Agricantus · Jul 15, 2017

Nice trend => coin videos (btw, when will @stevex6 be back?)

I would like to see more/higher angles, too, for thick and/or high relief coins.

Alegandron · Jul 15, 2017

TIF said: ↑

View attachment 631584
SICILY, Entella. Punic issues
c. 300-289 BCE; AR tetradrachm, 24 mm, 16.8 gm, 12h)
Obv: head of Melquart-Herakles right, wearing lion skin
Rev: head of horse left; astragalos (cut over poppy) to left, palm tree to right, Punic MHSBM (approximate meaning is "quaestors" or financial controllers) below
Ref: Jenkins, Punic 366 (O115/R298), series 5b
Ex Gorny & Mosch 138 (7 March 2005), lot 33

This and other Punic tetradrachms have been on my wish list since I saw my first examples. It's hard to say why this type became such a must-have since I didn't know much about the circumstances of the coin. Actually, I guess it's not hard to say why: it's a beautiful coin. Sometimes that's reason enough .

I assumed there would be extensive and colorful history to go with this coin, but that seems not to be the case. After winning the coin I began searching for interesting tidbits for a writeup. A first step for such things is always to check auction catalogs, especially old and higher-end catalogs which sometimes have nice blurbs that add interest. I checked all of my catalogs and online catalogs; checked various general and Greek numismatic books in my growing library. Zip, zilch, nada. No amusing anecdotes, no tantalizing tie-ins with history. Hmm.

But... Digital Library Numis to the rescue! All four parts of "Coins of Punic Sicily" are there, yay!!

Some of my questions are answered in those articles:

Hoard evidence is what places these coins at Entella, which was under the control of Carthage at that time. The Punic Wars were still three or four decades away but there were ongoing problems with Agathokles. Perhaps these coins were used to pay troops and other costs of battle.

The two main variations of this coin ("quaestors" issues and "people of the camp" issues) were probably issued concurrently and from the same location, although the reasons are cloudy. It might indicate that there was more than just army encampments there-- the Carthaginian state was doing more than just paying the army.

The head of Tanit/horse head tetradrachms immediately preceded these coins. While this new obverse undoubtedly copies Alexander III tetradrachms, Punic Melqart had already been assimilated into Greek Herakles so the Carthaginians weren't abandoning their Punic iconography... they were just making coins that blended in better with the region. Alex III tets had already become extremely well known throughout the Mediterranean.

I mistakenly thought there were hundreds of dies for the entire emission, since the Entella tetadrachms I was drawn to all had high die numbers. However, the die numbers for the series begin at 86 for the obverse and 227 for the reverse (earlier numbers are for earlier Punic coins in Jenkins' scheme). The "quaestors" tets have only 21 obverse and 81 reverse dies; the "people of the camp" tets have 20 obverse and 39 reverse dies. That makes more sense, because it's not like you see these on every numismatic corner

Anyway, this minutia is probably pretty boring to most of you. If it isn't, you might want to read the Jenkins articles.

More importantly to me is that this was struck with one of my favorite dies for the series. I don't always have to have highly artistic coins in relatively high grade (have you seen all of my grungy but beloved coins of Roman Egypt? ), but for this one I held out. I studied archives and made note of my favorite dies. For the obverse, die 115 was in the top tier and reverse die 298 is interesting because it was recut. I was happy to see this coin at auction.

Speaking of the reverse die, it began life with a poppy in the left field but was later recut into an astragalos (knuckle bone; a gaming and/or fortune telling device).

Here's the a coin struck with the same reverse die as mine, before recutting. That's a poppy in the left field. Note that the obverse die is also the same as my coin.

View attachment 631612
(from CNG's archives)

...

Artistic dies, good centering, good metal, good strike, little wear... happy sigh

Please feel free to add you Punic coins or related issues. Coins of Agathokles from around the same time are also welcome.
Click to expand...

@TIF , this is a wonderul coin. Congrats! You know this is on my Target list. My apologies for being late to congratulate. You know I love and collect Carthaginian coins due to their being an advesary Empire to the Roman Republic. We have had horrible tragedy in our family, and I also finally have gotten our business up on its feet. I have been away, and will be sporadic in my posting. Regardless, all of this does not take away from the incredibly gorgeous coin you captured! WELL DONE!

TIF · Jul 15, 2017

Alegandron said: ↑

@TIF , this is a wonderul coin. Congrats! You know this is on my Target list. My apologies for being late to congratulate. You know I love and collect Carthaginian coins due to their being an advesary Empire to the Roman Republic. We have had horrible tragedy in our family, and I also finally have gotten our business up on its feet. I have been away, and will be sporadic in my posting. Regardless, all of this does not take away from the incredibly gorgeous coin you captured! WELL DONE!
Click to expand...

I'm so sorry to hear of your strife! Best wishes to you and your family for the return of tranquility

Agricantus said: ↑

Nice trend => coin videos (btw, when will @stevex6 be back?)

I would like to see more/higher angles, too, for thick and/or high relief coins.
Click to expand...

I should have moved the coin around more and shown it on edge. I did shoot a little bit of video of that nature but the movements were jerky and unappealing. Somewhere amidst the clutter I have a Gorillapod and that will be a better way to position the camera. In this video the camera was taped to a small box which was held at a downward angle by two woodworking clamps, and my arms were awkwardly circling the whole mess, trying not to bump it.

randygeki · Jul 15, 2017

Looks fantastic

zumbly · Jul 15, 2017

Wow, that video just brings my appreciation of the coin to a whole new level. It was fantastic before and it's just off the charts now!

TIF · Jul 16, 2017

zumbly said: ↑

Wow, that video just brings my appreciation of the coin to a whole new level. It was fantastic before and it's just off the charts now!
Click to expand...

Thanks, Z and everyone!

The coin is certainly fantastic but I bet all of our coins will look "better" in video compared to a high quality still photo for the same reason all coins look better in hand with my bare eyeballs. With high quality still photos, the magnification shows every little blemish. When viewed with only my aging eyes, no such blemishes exist on any of my coins

zumbly · Jul 16, 2017

TIF said: ↑

The coin is certainly fantastic but I bet all of our coins will look "better" in video compared to a high quality still photo for the same reason all coins look better in hand with my bare eyeballs. With high quality still photos, the magnification shows every little blemish. When viewed with only my aging eyes, no such blemishes exist on any of my coins
Click to expand...

That's certainly true, but in the case of your coin the video also shows better that incredible high-relief portrait, and also how gorgeously the silver catches the light as you turn it about in your hands. The best part is that with the video I can really almost imagine the feel of that weighty beauty in my own hands. Now just in case you are of a mind to, you have my address... you can make that dream a reality .

Deacon Ray · Jul 16, 2017

Alegandron said: ↑

@TIF...Carthaginian coins...
Click to expand...

I'm sorry that tragedy has struck in your family, Alegandron! This forum is a great place to come in out of the storm of life for a while.

Alegandron · Jul 16, 2017

Deacon Ray said: ↑

I'm sorry that tragedy has struck in your family, Alegandron! This forum is a great place to come in out of the storm of life for a while.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

Johndakerftw · Jul 16, 2017

Alegandron said: ↑

@TIF , this is a wonderul coin. Congrats! You know this is on my Target list. My apologies for being late to congratulate. You know I love and collect Carthaginian coins due to their being an advesary Empire to the Roman Republic. We have had horrible tragedy in our family, and I also finally have gotten our business up on its feet. I have been away, and will be sporadic in my posting. Regardless, all of this does not take away from the incredibly gorgeous coin you captured! WELL DONE!
Click to expand...

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family, Alegandron!

Erin

Alegandron · Jul 16, 2017

Thank you.

Alegandron · Jul 16, 2017

Again, AWESOME to the highest degree @TIF ... that one has been on my target list... you probably got one of my saved coins!

Here are some of my Punic Coins...

Carthage - Sicily AR Litra 4th C BCE 9.5mm 0.65g Palm Tree Horse Head SNG Cop 74 EE Clain-Safanelli RARE

Carthage - Zeugitana AV 1-10th Stater-Shekel 350-320 BCE 0.94g 7.5mm Palm- Horse Head SNG COP 132

LOL, yeah, I had to pop over to Marc's site to get this so I had Gold-Silver-Bronze of the SAME Palm/Horse-Head them (yeah, JUST to have it...)

Carthage Sicily mint(?) Æ17 6.1g 350-320 BCE Palm Tree Horse Head SNG Cop 102

Log in or Sign up

A big one from the wish list: Siculo-Punic tetradrachm

lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

Guest User Guest

TIF Always learning.

PMONNEY Flaminivs

Attached Files:

Carthorserev.jpg

PMONNEY Flaminivs

Attached Files:

Carthorserev.jpg

gregarious E Pluribus Unum

Agricantus Allium aflatunense

Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

TIF Always learning.

randygeki Coin Collector

zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

TIF Always learning.

zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

Deacon Ray Well-Known Member

Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

Johndakerftw Mr. Rogers is My Hero

Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

Share This Page

Log in or Sign up

A big one from the wish list: Siculo-Punic tetradrachm

lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

Guest User Guest

TIF Always learning.

PMONNEY Flaminivs

Attached Files:

Carthorserev.jpg

PMONNEY Flaminivs

Attached Files:

Carthorserev.jpg

gregarious E Pluribus Unum

Agricantus Allium aflatunense

Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

TIF Always learning.

randygeki Coin Collector

zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

TIF Always learning.

zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

Deacon Ray Well-Known Member

Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

Johndakerftw Mr. Rogers is My Hero

Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

Share This Page

Useful Searches