Nomos - 9 July

But... but... did you not see the sad baby face? lol

Considering you have top notch taste in coins I guess I'll just have to stop collecting either that or start panhandling for scraps in front of TIF or Bings house...

 

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I found Leu's recent e-mail update with some stats from their first online auction to be interesting. One bit of info they revealed was the participation of over 500 bidders in the sale, which I thought was a rather large number considering the amount of potential competition for certain lots that crops up even within our own small CT group. I have to wonder how large the pre-Internet bidder pools were for the average auction back in the day.

 

Very nice OP Vespasian, it certainly does seem to have David's name written all over it. Maybe we should get him to post his check list so we know what we might have a chance at??

I lost on many, but picked up three in the auction, didn't have much competition on these ones. The first is a bronze from Roman controlled Macedon in 168-67 BC, just after Aemilius Paullus won the battle of Pydna and captured Perseus, the last king of Macedon, along with 300 million sestertii worth of booty. (This funded tax relief in Italy for many decades.) It names the quaestor Gaius Publilius.


The second is a small bronze of Spithridates, satrap of Lydia and Ionia in 334 BC. He was one of the Persian commanders at the Battle of the Granicus, and he nearly got Alexander from behind, but his arm was cut off(!) by Kleitus, just in time. The coin dates from right around the time of the battle.

Number 3 is a wacky little imitation of an Antoninus Pius denarius, which I'd like to find out more about. Maybe @dougsmit has some thoughts...


Three neat little bits of history that I'm very happy with! The loss I was saddest about was this Corinthian stater. Still waiting for the right one, I thought this might be it. (I guess not.)

 

Yeah, I wish somebody would come up with a good idea for how we could coordinate better. It's a bit tricky, because it seems to be bad form(?) to post about upcoming auctions. Surely there's something we can do? A group PM list here on CT?

I certainly had my eye on that one! Bidding blew past me, though. Feel free to PM me if you want to unload your old one.

 

Wonder what 'participation' means. I registered, but decided not to bid. Currency conversion and shipping meant I'd have to win a lot to make it worthwhile, and I'd committed my budget elsewhere.

 

Be careful what you agree. Any lawyers know the rules on collusion?

 

Sorry you didnt get it :/

 

In their words: "More than 500 bidders actively participated in the auction, placing over 6,000 bids in the many bidding battles."

I assume not all were winning bidders.

 

Nice scores! Pity about the Colt.

 

I think such a group email would end up being extremely large and cumbersome.

It would probably be better for you to identify a very small number of CoinTalk friends who generally collect what you collect, and in the same general price range. Have one small group conversations or a few individual conversations for upcoming auctions. You can then identify their targets and if there is overlap, work out an arrangement. Who wants it more (i.e., what are the interested parties' planned maximums)? Whose collection does it best fit? Etc.

I've rarely had any serious conflicts when discussing upcoming lots. There are a few CoinTalkers with whom I regularly discuss upcoming auctions-- not in all in one group though (although one regular conversation does involve three people rather than two). There are occasions when I PM a specific member about a coin. For instance, recently I contacted Okidoki about a particular Hadrian I'm drooling over, figuring he was too. Yep. It will probably be a moot point this time because it is almost certainly going to go for much more than either of us want to bid. It did help in planning though.

 

Harry Sneh and I used to coordinate pre-bidding strategies so we were not competing against each other. It worked out quite well and we both were happy with the results. I recently offered to do the same with another Flavian collector and he outright refused to do so.

 

Not sure why I used a different name on CNG but I recently changed it to my name here so I could be recognized. Anybody feel free to message me if interested in the same coin and I'll be happy to discuss options.

 

I much prefer auction houses to not display bidder names so that's my one complaint about CNG's auctions. It just adds unnecessary complexity to bid planning . It seems like it would be better for the auction house (and consignor) for the bidder names to be kept private. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I suspect that more often people refrain from bidding because of knowing the current high bidder (whether because they like the person or because they think they can't outbid the person). If this is true then the auction house and consignor might have made more profit if the bidder names were not displayed. I guess the opposite could be true though-- that another bidder might see the name of someone they don't like and bid more. The second scenario seems less likely though.

For the few auction houses who display bidder names, if there is a coin I'm serious about and if I think I know the current high bidder, I do contact the bidder to discuss their level of interest.

With rare exceptions, I bid in the last seconds on timed-closure auctions or when the auction is live, so the above scenario doesn't apply in reverse to my bids. My bidder name changes frequently so you aren't going to know I was the winner until I post it here or on my website, or unless we have spoken privately about the lot.

 

I followed the auction but there was only one lot I was really interested in:




Great condition even if a little off-center. Scarce anyway you look at it
and a lovely coin.
I would have bid over the top bidder, at least reasonably beyond what it finally hammered at.

The only reason I did not bid is that I am already waiting for a coin to arrive from the last Leu auction (also located in Switzerland), and I first want to see what kind of import duty will be charged at german customs.

Yep, Switzerland not being part of the EU Customs Union means duty ranging between 7% and 19 % may be due. The actual amount may depend on the mood of the customs agent (per Leu's own words...)

Since paying 19% on top of Nomo's 18,5 % would not be cool, I first want to see how my purchase at Leu goes before I buy again in Swiss auctions.
So you could say this is one that got away.

wait and see....

 

This is a very sensible suggestion. My problem there is that I am such a generalist, I overlap with pretty much everyone! (But if somebody suspects I may bid them up, please do PM me... I usually have quite a few targets and would be happy to stand down for another CT member.)

 

Does this apply only to EU countries that charge import duties on goods from Switzerland?

I ask because I continue to purchase coins from NAC (via my dealer) and have never paid import duties into the U.S.

 

I feel your pain when bidding on and loosing the coin. Had a few of them myself.

 

All countries in the EU are treated as a unit when it comes to imports/exports
with countries outside of the union. In other words, no duties exist between members. However, duties are levied with countries outside of the EU.

Full rates apply to and from the EU and the USA and also Switzerland.

Preferential rates apply for import/export to a few countries as for example between the USA and the UK where duty of only 5% is applied on imports from the USA, instead of the 7-19% prevalent.

I refer to coins only.

So, to answer your question, import duties from Switzerland apply to ALL EU countries.
From what you say, the fact the US levies no duties on imports from Switzerland probably implies the deal is reciprocal, i.e. no duty from the USA to Switzerland.

 

Import charge for ancient coins was so far always 7 % to Germany from non EU countries. IF you do not believe me go to Germany customs center near to you or call them. I have the pleasure several times per year to drive to customs to pick up my caught parcels/letters with coins from non EU mainly USA.
I think it is not a German law but an EU law, I think that the EU is responsible and that the EU get import charges and this law will be the same in all EU coutries. This import charges have to be paid only once if goods are imported to EU. If the import taxes would be different in other EU countries, then all would import the goods to the EU country with lowest import taxes and then shipping it to the destination country in EU.

Import carges from non EU to EU for ancient coins is 7%.
Some gold coins that are still valid are free of import taxes which is the only exception from the 7% I know.

Ich denke Leu hat da was verwechselt, Mehrwertsteuer von 19 % oder Differenzbesteuerung von ca. 7 % in Deutschland auf Münzen. Das ist aber absolut irrelevant da die Münze nicht in Deutschland verkauft wurde und somit diese Steuern gar nicht anfallen.
Goldmünzen die gültiges Zahlungsmittel waren bzw. sind, sind teilweise steuerbefreit (keine MwSt und keine Einfuhrumsatzsteuer).

 

Thats exactly how it is. NAC lets you import the coins through the UK where the import duty is 5%. CNG can do that as well since they have an office in London. Otherwise the amount of import duties is the responsibility of individual EU member states (Germany 7%, Belgium 6% etc.)