So, I was cataloging some coins and found an unusual one. I put it aside as I have much to do, but it came back up tonight. This one is for any Republican experts. I just cant seem to find it listed anywhere. I have checked all the sales records (many hundreds of them) major and minor and havent seen another. Maybe I am looking too closely, but maybe someone can see what should be obvious: C Vibius Pansa, 90 BC Silver Denarius, Rome Mint, 18mm, 4.25 grams Obv: Laureate head of Apollo right, PANSA behind. Rx: Minerva driving galloping quadriga right holding reins and spear, C VIBIVS C F in exergue. Vibia1 // Crawford342/5 // Sydenham684 So, what's unusual? There seems to be a control mark just below the legs of the horses. Perhaps I am looking at it too closely, but it appears to be one of two things: Either the letter "R" or a male bearded head facing right. Can anyone tell me what I am missing? I promise not to be embarrassed. Missing the obvious happens often as I get older.
Looks like an R to me, but probably distorted a little from the flow of metal at time of strike, erosion/wear of the die during the striking process, strike force and angle, etc. Just look at the S C F letters on the lower right side of the reverse, they also have some distortion due to the striking process and die wear. In fact, the F could be mistaken for a P by someone who doesn't know better.
With magnification and imagination it really does look like a bearded bust. But, well, we often see things that are not there. I too think it is the letter "R", but threw that in as I also see it as well!
Ken, it looks like a lion to me. It looks to me like the body to the left of the head is weakly struck and it looks like a lions mane around the top left of the head. Of course if your not seeing that with the coin in hand I'm probably way off base.
Roman monograms are cool. OP could definitely have an RA monogram. I have a sweet RA on my L. Piso Frugi too. However, the Romans could get very creative with their monograms. Look at the odd one on the Phillipus denarius...a large M with a little squigly line representing the R and a small little o, plus a line on the end of the M to represent the A. Very creative.
This is an interesting coin. Some of this moneyer's types from that year included reverse control marks but as far as I know there are no known examples of this type bearing a control-mark on the reverse. I can't with certain say that what you have here is a control-mark, nor can I with certainty dismiss it as die damage, though my gut feeling is die damage as I have seen examples with pretty severe die rust and wear. I looked through close to 400 examples between ACSearch, my photo file and my physical catalogs and have not yet found a die match or at least a die match to this die state(if it is indeed die damage). These types from the Social War were created in such large numbers and so haphazardly and quickly that new discoveries do happen and are possible. My advice is to join and email this to the RROME email list on yahoo to get the opinions of members there.
It could well be die damage. The quadriga exhibits 8 front legs of horses and 8 rear legs, plus, just in front of the foremost rear leg, some extra metal, unlike any intentional die feature. We are not trying to fit that bit of metal into a catalog ID because it is not at all close to looking like a control mark. The other bit of metal is probably not meaningful either. It is just our human ability to turn any shape without meaning (like constellations in the sky) into something that might, just might, be meaningful.
This issue had plenty of dies. It would not surprise me that there was a die with an extra punch. It does not look like the letter "R" from coins about the same time to me. Most of the Rs have a sharp angle at the top-left of the letter. Your coin has a curved line that transitions from horizontal to vertical. A man's head or an animal with big ears would work for me.
As others have noted but I want to stress, the point of Ken's query isn't whether the object in question is an R or something else; what matters is whether it's intentional at all. If it is intentional, it's a new, unlisted variety as this type has previously been known only with control marks on the obverse, under Apollo's chin. New varieties of RR denarii are certainly not unheard of, but the series is thoroughly catalogued and discoveries are anything but frequent. A long time ago, Dick Schaefer taught me something important: new discoveries require incontrovertible, unambiguous evidence to be fully accepted by scholars and knowledgeable collectors. This fails that test, because this surely could be a fortuitous die-break. It's unfortunate (though typical of the issue) that the obverse centering is such that a correctly placed obverse control mark, if present on the die, is off the flan on this example. I tend to think there really is something there--perhaps the engraver forgot to water his lunchtime wine and got confused--but that's really just one more opinion. Other examples of the reverse die might resolve this. Dick Schaefer's photo file might contain such examples, if someone cares to contact him. A side note to Valentinian: if I'm understanding your point correctly, the extra metal "just in front of the foremost rear leg" is actually the left wheel of the quadriga. Phil Davis
Not sure what to say about your reverse marks under your horses' feet. Mine has some bumpy shadows, but I feel mine is die wear. However this issue had differing control marks under Apollo's chin. I believe yours is off-flan; but mine has a 'V' which can be misunderstood to make the coin a Quinarius when it is actually a Denarius. I got this one as it was minted during the ramp-up to fight the Marsic Confederation during the Social War. RR Vibius Pansa 90 BCE AR Den Apollo 'V' control mark - Minerva Quadriga Sear 242 Cr 342/5 Social-Marsic War
Oh man, I knew the OP coin looked familiar to me. It took me 12 hours to realize I own one too. LOL. That's sad. I had a feeling last night that OP's coin was almost identical to a coin I owned, but my brain couldn't put two and two together. Not even earlier this morning when I looked at the thread again. Cubans have a saying for things like this: "Si es perro te muerde" (If it were a dog it would have bitten you.) It's a saying for when something is so obvious that it is staring you right in the face. Notice on the obverse of mine, there does seem to be an X present, but it's low and almost completely off the edge of the flan, but you can see the trace at the 5 o'clock position.
