I've been thinking about this idea for a thread for quite some time. We all know that inflation bites into everything but sometimes we take it for granted with little more thought. I thought would make an interesting thread to show this by posting pictures of our coins. The idea is that each post must contain at least two coins of different dates but of the same country and denomination, preferably many years apart. Other coins can be added to show more information. The metal type and coin size should be clearly shown because these are clear indicators of inflation.
ITALY. 20 Lire coins of 1862 and 1979. In 1862 this was a coin containing 0.1867 oz of gold. But by 1957 it was reduced to an aluminum-bronze coin only 21.75mm diameter. The 1979 shown is the same coin. compare this to the 1866 10 Centesimi made of bronze (96% copper) and a huge 30 mm. At the other extreme is the 1984 500 Lire bimetallic coin. It would take 5000 of these "Bronzital center in Acmonital ring" coins (whatever those are) to match that huge copper.
While I appreciate seeing coins side by side, the inflation and gold talk is a bit silly. There is a finite amount of gold in the world. There is an infinite amount of wealth that can be created. It is not possible to tie the infinitely expanding value of the goods and services of a country to a fixed, finite metal. How about you also add the gdp of the country at the time next to each coin you picture? Then it will make more sense why the precious metal was removed to allow for more coins to be produced to represent the expanding wealth of the country.
If you don't have anything useful to say then wouldn't it be better to say nothing? We know from other threads that you have an aversion to precious metals. Wouldn't it have been more productive to comment on the fact that 5000 bronze coins (96% copper) are needed to match the modern 200 Lire? You certainly cannot put that down to a finite supply of copper. You have this backwards. It is not possible because economists have decided that inflation is needed to that the rich can pocket more money and, as a result, PMs can no longer be used. So let's return to the idea of the thread, which is to compare coins of equal face value over the years and let's stay away from the political and economic issues.
Firstly, please forgive the crummy photo. I think it is my coin but I'll never take credit for the photo. This 1887 Costa Rica 25 Centimos was revalued to 50 Centimos in 1923. Edit to add: I found a photo depicting a one of these coins in a slab:
I could have really complicated things with another denomination, but felt like using the 50 sen. Inflation, war expenditures...all play a factor. Silver 12.5 grams of .800 silver (1870-1871) actually bumped UP to 13.48 grams .800 silver (1873-1905) reduced to 10.13 grams .800 (1906-1917) and on down to 4.95 grams of .720 (1922-1938) after that, no more silver Brass, 4.5 grams (1946-19470 and on down to Brass 2.8 grams (1947-1948) After that the denomination (basically a half yen) became obsolete and no longer used. Using a smaller denomination would have taken it on down through cupro-nickel, aluminum bronze, aluminum, tin, and even clay (not officially issued for use, though it did see some use). Some of that not only reflected inflationary pressures but also metal usage for war efforts. The yen on the other hand merely went through silver to a very short lived brass iteration, and then onto aluminum which is the currently used coin. Wartime uses aside, there is no getting around moving from a crown sized silver to a very lightweight aluminum for a denomination used since the modern coinage started.
This Brazil 80 Reis is dated 1829 and it was originally valued at 80 Reis. It was revalued to 40 Reis and counterstamped (40 over 80 Reis). The Brazil government passed a law in 1835 that caused the 80 Reis to be officially counterstamped to the value of 40 Reis. The host 80 Reis coin is Krause 366.1 and with the counterstamp it is Krause 444.1
Really nice examples Stork. That is what I was looking for when I started the thread. Last nice I was looking at a 1882 1/2 sen coin which is 3.56g of copper. I would have liked to put that up as an example but don't have any others of the denomination. And I had a feeling you would cover Japan anyway.
This is why the world is moving away from metal and to paper currency. It's why we're moving more toward cashless transactions, period. No finite resource can be used to represent the infinite ability humans have to generate wealth.
Remember, there is no such thing as wealth in the modern, western sense. What we call wealth is merely a form of debt. Wealth can only arise as a product of labor that produces a more valuable (useful) product that the value of the resource required to produce it. The USA produces very few useful products anymore and so does not generate wealth. China does. All the USA does is create new money as a form of debt through the financial world. So, the concept of inflation is very relevant to the use of metals. Debt cannot be monetized by the use of metals because as your say, there is more debt/wealth than the available metals can cover (unless the price in dollars skyrockets). But wealth as a result of labor could still be covered by metals if their prices were allowed to float freely instead of being controlled. The topic of this thread, then, is more relevant than ever.
"No finite resource can be used to represent the infinite ability humans have to generate wealth." I am not sure I agree. IF all wealth was in the form of gold coins, for example, then that statement might be true. BUT - we do not in the modern era keep our wealth as a pile of gold coins. It is represented as a bank statement, a Monet painting, an expensive house, etc. The same pile of gold can be used over and over again by different people to buy these things. For example, I take my pile of gold to pay someone to build me an expensive house, then he uses it to but a Monet, etc. etc.
BTW - I do not have them handy, but coins and tokens from hyperinflationary Germany would provide some great examples of denominations of coins that went way down in value and then back up again.
Gentlemen. I was born in Soviet Union at April 13 1975. And I remember our old prices. This is 5 roubles 1987. It was rather "big" money. For example, 1 litre of gasoline in 1987 cost 1 ruble 10 kopeks. In present days 1 litre of gasoline costs about 35 roubles.
5 roubles 1987: copper-nickel, weight - 29 g., size - 39 mm. 5 roubles 2015: nickel plated steel, weight - 6 g., size - 25 mm.
