Is there any risk of seizure of coins by customs

I asked the seller if he would cover the cost if it were seized but he said he had never heard of such occurring. Should I be concerned?

 

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I have the same question. I have a Severus II follis coming from Canada that was shipped 2.5 weeks ago. Still hasn't shown up, I'm afraid it may be held up in customs, or was somehow lost in the mail. It was shipped via Canada post.

 

First off, the usual disclosure that I am not a lawyer, nor is this intended to be legal advice and you should speak to a lawyer knowledgeable on these issues if you have questions or for information on your specific concerns


The answer to this question is complex. I assume you're asking about the coins posted in this thread and I'm making the assumption you're in the US like most members here seem to be, but if not, your locals laws may and likely will be completely different.

There are a few reasons coins can potentially be confiscated by US customs. One uncommon reason is that there is direct evidence or suspicion that the coins were smuggled or illegally exported from the country they were found in. Unless you're buying coins direct from Greece or Italy(in which case they're probably fake if they don't have export paperwork FWIW), you don't have to worry much about this.

The most relevant one for most collectors are the MOUs or Memoranda of Understanding. These are agreements made between the Cultural Property Advisory Committee(CPAC), a division within the US Department of State, and other nations, generally source countries for antiquities such as Egypt, Italy, Greece, etc. These agreements are ostensibly short-term agreements meant to address looting and generally take the form of a list of items for which import is restricted unless the item meets certain criteria such as having provenance(collecting history) showing it was out of [source country] before a given date, having provenance showing it has been out of [source country] for at least 10 years or having an export certificate issued by the government of [source country]. Essentially, in these cases these artifacts are treated as guilty(of being recently looted) until proven innocent by the government and as such the onus is on the collector to prove their innocence. Most collectors I've spoken with feel this is deeply anti-American and unconstitutional but this post is informational rather than political so I won't dive into that here, but please join the ACCG if you feel the same way.

Some examples of source countries and some examples of what they restrict(note this is NOT meant to be a definitive list):

Italy - the following coin types are restricted in the absence of either provenance prior to January 2011 or an export certificate fro the Republic of Italy

• Roman Republic and Etruscan struck coins prior to about 211 B.C. including Romano-Campanian issues
• Early Italian(including Roman) cast issues - google aes rude, aes grave and aes signatum for examples
• Struck Roman colonial issues from Italy prior to 37 A.D.
• Issues of the Greek cities in Italy prior to 200 B.C.

Greece - The following coin types are restricted in the absence of either provenance prior to December 2011 or an export certificate from Greece

• Bronze coins struck in the territory of the modern Greek state from approximately the 5th century B.C. to the 1st century B.C.
• Smaller silver coins weighing approximately 10g or less(so does not apply to big trade coins like tetradrachms) struck in the territory of the modern Greek state
• Roman coins in silver and bronze struck in the territory of the modern Greek state from approximately the late 2nd century B.C. to the 3rd century A.D.

Egypt - The following coin types are restricted in the absence of either provenance prior to December 2016 or an export certificate from Egypt

• Hellenistic or Ptolemaic coins in gold, silver and bronze struck within the boundaries of the modern Egyptian state from circa 332 B.C. to 31 B.C.
• So-called nwb-nfr coins which may be related to Dynasty 30 with hieroglyphs nwb-nfr on one side and a horse on the other
• Roman coins struck in silver or bronze at any mint in the modern Egyptian state from circa 31 B.C. to 294 A.D.

OK, so those are some of the big restrictions we run into but there are others(i.e. Bulgaria). Where does this leave us with the two coins you were previously interested in? I do not think there is any evidence of recent looting, and unless you do, I do not think you need to worry about that. The Trajan's Column denarius was struck in Rome, Italy during the rule of Trajan and because this period is not listed under the Italian MOU is completely free and clear of import problems.

The Antony denarius is a little less certain. These may have been struck in Patrae, Greece depending on whose work you read and what you believe. Some authors simply list the mint as "uncertain" and feel that there are several candidates for it across the Mediterranean. Some collectors feel that these coins fall under the Greek MOU, others do not. It's really a grey area, but I've never heard of an Antony denarius confiscated because of the MOU. If I were not completely certain of the mint attribution I might simply ask a seller to make sure that any printed or handwritten tags included with the coin list the mint as uncertain because that's what I'd want to have for my own personal references. Take that how you will.

That's my two cents. As I said, I don't think you're at any risk with the Trajan denarius and my Antony denarius came from overseas as well and had no problems "sailing" right through customs but you should be aware of the possible complications as discussed above.

 

What is it and where did it come from? That should answer your question

 

Its being sold from Moldovia

 

The answer is simple. It's customs and they can do whatever they want, all legally.

 

Nearly true. That's what the USPS will tell you anyway. US Customs must still follow the law barring the few bad apples that seem to work just about everywhere.

 

Well, this has largely been answered. Customs can and sometimes do seize just about anything. Most of the time it may be due to ignorance or even incorrect paperwork. However, most usually do not get 'lost' in customs, just stolen. Which of course can happen any time and any place along its delivery route. As for who covers costs of lost items, that is between the buyer and seller and should be determined before a transaction has been made.

 

Out of the hundreds of coins shipped to me from other countries only one package was seized by customs and eventually released after a long delay. The package arrived safe and sound secured with Customs' tell tale green tape. So yes, it does happen, but it's very rare.

 

The seller says he has not heard of it, and refuses to cover for stolen items

 

I would move on to another seller.

 

All the other sellers are twice the cost. Here is what he said,
"I have never met something
similar, but if you know that
this risk exists, please do not
bid.
If i am supposed to refund due to
something like this, it would be
like throwing my item on the
window.
I think it is better for both of
us to avoid this kind of issues."

 

I've had non coin items delivered with the green tape, so far all my coins have made it.
I hope I didn't just jynx myself, but I don't think you will have any issues as far as customs goes.

 

The lots you're looking at haven't closed yet. They might end up higher than you want to pay. There's still another day of bidding and in the auctions I frequent, most of the action takes place in the final minutes. Plus, those coins have now received extra attention (and possibly extra bidders) because they have been brought to everyone's attention here on CoinTalk.

While regular members probably won't bid on a coin you've advertised as wanting, at any given moment there are 3-4 times as many "guests" (lurkers) as members. The coins you posted in another thread probably won't see dramatic movement at the end though due to their relatively low condition.

That's not to say they aren't fascinating coins . It's nice to be able to buy such cool coins for so little money.

Have you checked CNG's archives to see what similar coins in similar condition brought? Here's the link: https://www.cngcoins.com/Coins_sold.aspx

 

I wonder if this is what's happened to my brother's latest packages. One is a coin that's been lost in the mail since the beginning of April and the other is an artifact that's been in customs for about three weeks now. He's not a very happy camper, to say the least.

Both were from the US to Canada.

Erin

 

Artifacts get the most attention these days in customs. They are careful about them. I have a parcel in customs now, being held and I am sure examined and tracked. One, they are 'weapons', two, they are coming from an Arab country. Double whammy. But, they usually do show up once they figure it all out.

 

U.S. Customs lost five percent of my foreign orders. I've ordered from a VCoins dealer in Jerusalem twenty times. I received nineteen of the orders and one was lost upon entering the U.S.

 

Thanks Ken.

I'm really hoping that both will show up soon.

The artifact is something he's been looking at since the fall and this was the last one available.

Erin

 

In my opinion, the worst possible thing a seller can do is to describe the item on the customs form as anything other than something vague and of minimal value.
My standby for coins of any type and age was 'Numismatic Material', with never a problem.
All a full and accurate description does is make pilfering less of a lucky dip process.
Millions of incoming small packets make detailed examination impossible, possibly any examination of individual packets is limited to passing the mailstream past a sniffer dog and the occasional X-ray.

I could add that part of my 'defensive shipping' strategy' was always hand write (very clearly) the address, and never put a trade sticker on the package. Return adderss just a street address, not for example 'Joe's Coin Shop' or similar.
You have to think "as a criminal, what would I look for? " then avoid that.