1878 8TF Morgan. VAM? Grade?

Please help. There are some vertical hairlines on the reverse to the left of the eagle's face and left of wing. This coin doesn't appeared to have been cleaned. Are these due to die polishing. VAM? It has the characteristics of VAM 22B but not all of them. Can it be graded a VAM which only some of the VAM characteristics? In VAMword, the highest grade in the population statistics is MS62. Any estimates on what this coin would grade? If it would grade MS63 or higher, it would be top pop. If so, what kind of premium would it command? The reverse is well struck with nice chest feathers. Thanks in advance.

 

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VAM 17 & probably unc details unfortunately due to hairlines on obv

 

(Is it bad form to use the same GIF twice in one day to comment?)

 

not when it's a good gif, you're fine

 

Those lines are from the die. Look at how they don't run through the eagle.

 

The revere lines above the eagle are indeed on the die however the obverse field is plagued with pmd hairlines

 

Agreed, but I'm not sure they rise to the level of "deliberate cleaning." IMO they're an incidental rub against something, and it'd be up to the TPG to adjudicate whether a righteous slab is warranted. Me, based on these pics, I'd slab it at a loss of a grade due to the lines. 62, maybe?

 

I would tend to agree if it was just the spaced patch in front of the bust however mixed with the more menacing patch below the hair which looks like it has the potential of being much more deliberate (although the area is darkly lit) plus the right stars appear to have a halo effect, I would bet on a body bag from these pics

 

63

 

An iffy example, i cant offer anything more than a guess without seeing in hand.
I WILL say, that i wouldnt pay more than $100 for it. Although i AM exttemely picky (especially w 8 tf) i like them to be 63+ or better as a ton of these that are in 63 slabs are just plain ugly.

 

Wouldn't be surprised; if I were characterizing my answer from a TPG point of view I'd probably put it that way. Personally, though, I don't feel it rises to the level of "ungradable."

 

Feel free to disagree, of course, but those are exactly the type and character of hairlines that indicate "improperly cleaned." I've never seen an "incidental rub" that gave that look. Absolutely no way this gets a problem free grade. UNC Details.

 

Well, as I said the opinion offered was a personal one, and I feel a TPG would call it Damaged, at least. If there are any_more hairlines than those already visible here, I revise my opinion to "damaged" as well.

However, what we see here can't be construed by anyone who thinks things through as "deliberate cleaning." Where is the evidence of anything that needs "cleaning?" The coin isn't covered in harsh hairlining, which is the usual prerequisite for the removal of all evidence of a condition requiring the brushing. Such would be visible in these images. I see nothing left in the tighter areas, neither crud nor toning.

There was no reason to clean this coin. Why do we think it was cleaned?

 

Really, why is labeling these lines even an issue? Think about it...

 

Not to burst your bubble, but PCGS has examples all the way up to MS-68. Nowhere near a top pop.

I have a Barber quarter that is just as nice, yet got a light wiping on the obverse. No coin is immune from a cleaning by the ignorant.

It is just a hunk of silver. Why get worked up about it?

 

You can't answer my question, can you?

 

I was being very sarcastic. IMO, they are PMD hairlines, which renders a details grade to the OP coin.

 

TYPE, you must have performed "harsh cleaning" to your computer screen! Apparently all you see in anyone's coins is lack luster, sub par, why would anyone want these, junk! come on man... give it a break!

 

Show me a problem-free coin, I will call it problem-free. Show me a problem coin, I will call it damaged. Quoting a dealer I met when I was showing him my collection: "It's not my fault that you chose problem coins. Problem coins will always be problem coins, regardless of what you want to call them."

This coin is cleaned (very lightly) and thus damaged (yet only slightly). What about the other posters that call this a damaged coin? Are they wrong as well? You have ignored many other posts where I consider the coin pictured problem-free. Picking two posts that fit into your paradigm and resorting to an ad hominem attack does not make you right.

 

Why has this devolved so much. Can it get into a righteous slab? Sure, anything is possible. Will it get details? Yes, most likely. Simple stuff guys