Leu Numismatik Auction - how do you extend an auction which has closed???

How do you justify extending an auction which has already closed, for another week?

I had placed my bids earlier and had a fair idea of what I should have won as at auction close.

I logged in when to my surprise I received emails advising me I had been outbid, several hours later...

I received a message that due to a "timezone issue" they are extending the close date of the auction until 25 June.

So all the items on which I ought to have won as at the original auction close date, I have been outbid on some, and am open to being outbid on others - or people pushing up the price I will pay if their bids remain under my maximum bids.

I don't know what technical problems they may have faced but surely this is unethical?

I have just written to them demanding that all my bids are removed.

Did anyone else take part in this auction - how do you feel about this?

Peter

 

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This is not an infrequent occurrence since the advent of internet auctions. I hate it when these delays happen and suspect the auction houses hate it even more. It was to be Leu's first web auction and a (presumably) new platform, so I'm not very surprised that there was a technical problem.

At the beginning of the auction I was puzzled by the difference between their countdown clock and the stated closing times, but upon spot-checking a few of the first lots they were closing at the stated times. I bid on a lot in the 100s and was again puzzled when it didn't say "hammer price" upon screen refresh. I reloaded the whole thing and that's when I saw the "time zone" message.

Time zone issue? Doesn't look like it to me. Looks a software or programming issue. Whatever the reason, it is unfortunate. Only the first 44 lots closed. The rest will now close in a week.

 

Agreed, I wouldn't place bids earlier if I had known.. I will prob watch, whats happing, but I agree, this is BS

 

I put in a couple bids only one of which is still the highest. It's pretty annoying like EDITED: Language is a timezone issue?

 

If there were genuine technical issues, then an auction restart would have been fairest to all involved - or perhaps a short extension of a few hours.

The only one who benefits from extending an auction, in which the auction participants could not have anticipated such extension, is the dealer running the auction. The dealer gets the benefit of a competitive bid process driving prices to their respective 'final' values, the sum of which is revenue to the Dealer. But the Dealer now gets to improve on those final values by extending the close date and thus its revenue.

The only way revenue can go, is up, not down, when there is an extension post the auction close, and bidders cannot retract their bids.

 

I don't think that is necessarily accurate. I almost always bid in the final seconds of a timed-close auction. When auctions are postponed due to technical issues, more often than not I forget to bid when it comes back online. At most I think it might be fair to say that in some instances the lots ultimately sell for more that they would have it the auction proceeded as initially planned and in some, less.

The auction houses and consignors often lose when auctions are postponed. For instance, when I forget to bid in an auction I had intended to bid on but that was postponed, on the new closing date the auction has one less bidder, one less person bumping up all lots bid upon, lower hammers. I'm probably not the only person who tends to forget the new closing date when auctions are delayed. The consignors' payday is also delayed and the auction houses' public relations suffers.

I guess it is possible that for every intended bidder who forgets the new closing date, other bidders who somehow missed the first scheduled closure become aware of and bid in the auction.

Also weighing against the auction house: in the time between the cancelled and rescheduled auction, it is possible that some bidders might spend their allotted budget in another auction.

Browsing such auctions after the fact often shows that some good deals were had by those who remembered to bid on the new closing date.

(edited for clarity, or at least I hope it is more clear now )

 

I'm not sure I follow you. I followed the auction right until the counter ran out and it showed as closed on my computer. Then later it re-opens. Did it not appear the same to everyone - so you are saying some people did not bid?

 

They just responded to me that my bids have been withdrawn as I requested.

I am pleased by that outcome and shows integrity on their part.

 

They just clarified in an email to me that people saw the end time relative to the time in their web browser, not the official end time in Switzerland - which explains what they meant by time zone issues.

 

Most auction houses have specific rules set out to handle these situations. When one hits the "Accept Terms" button when you register, well, thats it. Nobody likes it when extensions happen but we all have to deal with it. And despite what some think, extending an auction does not necessarily mean bigger bids for the house. Recently when another house had a glitch and extended a week, my prior bids ALL won (which never happens in a European auction for me, and I was bidding extremely low for resale). In that case the extension worked against them (at least as far as anyone can tell).

It may actually be beneficial. One will only be able to tell if they stick with it and either bid again or watch and compare results to what they had before.

 

Not a "time zone" issue. They should just have said technical problem and started the entire auction over again from starting prices - just like all reputable auction houses do when there are bidding issues or problems on specific lots. No bids from me for sure on the redo. Plenty of other seasoned auction venues.

 

I know what it feels like to get burned by an auction house. However, since I did not bid the first time I had a look and there are one or two that are now targets for me.

 

..and this time.. we really mean it

 

I have a bid in this auction too, just waiting for someone to snipe it from me now.

 

I missed the auction while I was sailing, so I now I had a chance to throw in a bid today (hopefully not interfearing with any of you) :-D

 

Hmm... it seems the publicity from this thread might help ensure more bidders when the auction (re)closes.

Yay CoinTalk?

 

I thought about putting in a bid given the extra week, but then realized that Switzerland is not part of the European free trade/customs union.
That means that any imports to Germany from Switzerland would be slapped with import duties. As far as I can tell that adds 17 or 19%....will call anyway to confirm.
No getting around german customs.

 

some auctions have a rule that the bidding on a particular lot ends one hour after the last bid on that lot.

 

Welcome @harley bissell

 

Yes, a long time ago most online auctions had some period of extension. It was literally impossible to 'snipe' an auction. The reasoning was that it was much more like a live auction, the bidding would end when everyone was truly done.