So it's absolutely illegal to import ancient Roman coins into USA?

If they keep cracking down on ancient collectors, the day might come that governments confiscate everything. Before that happens, I would have hopefully sold out of mine a long time ahead and put the money into a Rolex or Omega.

 

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Wow, you're going to clean some crusties...good luck. Kind of fun and kind of frustrating.

 

I think my latest order from Jerusalem was seized.

 

Can you think of any product less likely to retain value than a watch? Perhaps some wealthy people can be convinced it is a status symbol (and Tag Heuer has been advertising watches on English Premier League Football broadcasts in the US for that reason) but I think that is desperation. Those companies are in trouble. Clearly watches are one of the most useless products available, given that anyone who can afford one already has a "phone" that tells time, and motions of the moon and stars if you want, and alarms, etc.

Perhaps we should start a thread in which we guess which currently valuable products will be worth little in the future. To make it coin related, we can also guess which series of (ancient) coins will do the worst, in terms of return on investment. It isn't ancient, but I'd guess "key" dates US cents will do very poorly. When I was a kid many kids collected and we all didn't have, but wanted, the key dates. Now, not many kids collect. Who will pay the huge premiums for the key dates? Prices will go down--a lot.

 

Irony is that governments don't want the cost of storing it all. A lot of symbolic posturing going on. And when they do they end up in store. Tragic also that the great Euphronios krater that was a centrepiece at the Met now languishes unseen at Cerveteli (anyone been?). I think the UK has it about right. A more-or-less free market that incentivises finders to report items. There is probably a market premium for identified items, particularly from noteworthy hoards.

 

There are watches and then there is junk. I will never buy another quartz watch. Sure, they are accurate, but they have no soul. A mechanical watch is a work of art that combines design innovation and precision manufacturing. There is just something captivating about watching a co-axial escapement actually work. The master craftsmen who make high end watches make wearable masterpieces of horological art.

I will stick with my Omega, you can use your iPhone.

 

Speculation is fun, but I'd enjoy just being a spectator for that thread. "Key dates" are speculative, to a point. Look at the 1903-O Morgan. It was a "key date" because many thought it had been melted down as a part of the Pittman act. There was a very small population released into the wild and that held the value high...and then the GSA hoard was released and the price fell through its floor. Taking your example of the LWC there were somewhat accurate minting populations released that help back their value. Some values don't make sense going on population alone, but many do. One that I don't get (and asked in a thread and many others don't get it either) the 14D had 1193000 reported minted and is valued at 200 in G4. The 31S had 866000 reported minted and is valued at 60. My speculation...they were hoarded. I think you are close in saying the "key dates" will do poorly, comparing them to today's values, but I look at it as more of a market correction. Everyone that hoarded those currently overvalued coins will be flooding the market when they sell off. Thats when I'll fill the 14D and 09S-VDB holes in my Whitman.

Edit- a lot could happen with the prices of LW/MC coppers if Uncle Sam gives the long awaited Ok to melt them. Then it will get really interesting.

 

I don't know if it helps but some recent (ancient) coin purchases of mine have been labelled as "Tokens" (no longer legal tender) on the export declaration, and as such I haven't had any problems.

@Orfew I, too, will stick with my watch -
Bulova Accutron c.1969 Style 24 451

 

I used to have an Omega Speedmaster Professional. Although they've now gotten ridiculously expensive, I'm actually considering re-buying it. It was hands down the most endearing watch I ever wore, and I miss not having one.

These days I may be a sucker for affordable Japanese Domestic Market Seiko watches...and man, they are great value for your buck...but darn it, I miss my Omega Speedmaster. As grossly overpriced as they've gotten, I will probably start setting money aside for one soon.

 

O bummer for you D RAY

 

So is it the fact alone that they are ancient artifacts or that they may be unethically obtained for sale? I know zilch about foreign policy with artifacts, but am learning alot from this area of the forum.

 

i think the Brits method is commendable too.

 

Could be this: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:JOL_2014_159_R_0001 - "Directive of the European Parliament and of the Council (15 May 2014) on the return of cultural objects unlawfully removed from the territory of a Member State" (2014/60/EU). Unlike a regulation, a directive is not directly binding law, i.e. the single member states need to adapt it to their legal framework. No idea what the UK did in that regard, and since they will soon not be affected by EU law any more anyway, that dealer may be back in business at some point. Coin dealers elsewhere took modifications of the law into account and went on.

Don't know about the importing aspects, but in most EU member states it is not illegal to export ancient coins. But yes, ultimately it is up to the dealer (and then the buyer) to have a pedigree that accompanies the coin ...

Christian

 

A seller from outside of the US labels my purchases on customs forms as "metal discs for research".

 

I have had this as well. And when I've sent coins to Europe, I've done the same per instructions from a client in Germany.

 

Thanks, Gregarious! It's okay though. I'm very grateful to have acquired the ones that I did. I was able to put together a nice collection of Judaean coins at reasonable prices ordering through some highly respected Israeli dealers.

 

You must bring your watch over to meet my pet rock...she has a lot of personality

 

The problem with Tag Heuer is that it is barely one step above a fashion watch company. The real Heuer watch company died in the early 70's with the Seiko quartz revolution, and Tag bought the remains. The reinvented "Tag Heuer" company (what came out of the ahses of the Quartz Revolution appocalypse) was a company with a highly exagerated history, overinflated prestigue, and just plain marketing BS.

If someone gifted me a Tag Heuer, I'd re-guift it to the first homeless person I saw, or the first Good Will thriftstore I could find. If I was forced to wear it for the benefit of the person who gifted it to me, I'd have a paper bag in my back pocket to cover my head as soon as I could get away from them. I wouldn't want anyone to see me wearing a Tag Heuer in public, and word getting out. The paper bag over the head would be far less embarrasing. I'd much rather wear a $60 Casio watch, or a $100 Timex over a Tag.

So what's the problem with Tag Heuer? They are liars. They got busted years ago for claiming they invented a new "in-house movement." Turns out that all they did was modify a standard automatic ETA movement, and then lied and claimed it was their own watch movement. Then in 2011 they claimed to have invented Caliber 1811, a new revolutionary automatic watch movement no one had ever seen before. Except those of us who know about watches were not fooled. It was a mid-tier Seiko movement which Seiko put on some low to mid-tier watches back in the 1990s. Tag Heuer bought the rights to the movement, then their PR people pretended Tag Heuer had invented the whole thing from scratch. To make it worse, when people called them out for the lie, they sent their teams of high priced lawyers to try and intimidate their customers for daring to speak the truth.

I could go on, but I don't want to hijack this thread further.

 

HI sallent