Using PayPal for Auctions: A Question of Fees

Dear Cointalkers,

Friday I won a coin from a Münzen und Medaillen GmbH auction. I am prepared to send a Paypal payment, but I’m confused by the qualifier “if you pay for the PayPal charges” (see below). I thought that businesses are typically charged the Paypal fees. I don’t mind paying them on this fairly modest win; I just am not sure how to make sure that the PayPal charges are charged to me rather than to the auction house if I send money as part of a commercial transaction. Any wisdom here?

Sorry to take your time with such a banal query. But this is my first “big boy” auction, and I want to make sure I’m following the appropriate practices.

The auction house notice and invoice are below, redacted appropriately.

"You bought one coin in our Auction Sale 45. In the attachment I am sending you the invoice and ask you to transfer the amount to our account with Commerzbank Freiburg …. Please take care of the bank charges. I shall send you the coin as soon as your payment has arrived in full on our account. Alternatively you may use our PayPal account … if you pay for the PayPal charges."

 

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They seem to be wanting you to add an amount to your total equal to whatever they will have to pay in PayPal fees. Surely they aren't asking you to pay via the PayPal "friends and family" thing.

I'd write and ask for clarification. Tell them you wish to pay by PayPal and ask them to revise the invoice to reflect the extra fee-- that way you'll have it in writing so there will be no misunderstanding later.

 

Not sure how you would know what the "Paypal charges" would be unless you inquire. If they are asking you to use the friends and family option to avoid fees, I would consider it to be shady. You also lose any of the protections offered by Paypal. They should have made all payments arrangements clear to participants prior to providing an invoice.

 

Frank does that, usually 3% of the total. Could be the same for you.

 

Thanks all. I will follow TIF’s advice. I will email them this query. Here’s what google translate and my grad school German came up with. If something’s unidiomatic, let me know. But English seems to be the lingua franca of all those auction houses anyway.

I will use PayPal. I will pay the PayPal fee, but I do not know the appropriate fee. Could you determine the PayPal fee and issue another invoice with this fee included?

Ich werde PayPal verwenden. Ich bezahle die PayPal-Gebühr, aber ich kenne die entsprechende Gebühr nicht. Können Sie die PayPal-Gebühr ermitteln und eine weitere Rechnung mit dieser Gebühr ausgeben?

 

I have had to do this for some auctions before. Check the terms and conditions of the auction. the PayPal percentage is usually there. I have paid 3%, 3.5%, and 4%. I think most auction houses expect 3 or 3.5. If this information is not in the terms and conditions just ask them what the appropriate percentage is and add it to your payment.

 

Gavin, just write to them in English. They will have someone one staff who reads English better than Google Translate's German interpretation of your inquiry

I have had to call German auction houses a few times. I was afraid of having communication difficulties but that didn't happen. I simply spoke English as normal, and the person answering, if they didn't speak English, immediately understood the need to transfer the call to someone else . Written inquiries will be the same.

 

A good thought. But it's not stated, so I'll just request a new invoice with fees included. I agree with TIF--there's no confusion or dispute if I pay the amount they invoice me for.

 

Ok. When traveling, I've had people stop my schoolboy French or phrasebook Italian in mid-sentence, as if it hurt their ears. It probably did. But I didn't want to be the Ugly American and make assumptions that everyone should cater to my culture; I tried to speak the native language as a matter of respect.

But I suppose a brief written query is a different matter. So English it is.

 

Yeah, I hear you with the Ugly American thing. I hate having to call foreign auction houses for just that reason but they've always been very understanding.

These auction houses are accustomed to dealing with customers from around the world, many of whom do not speak their language. They will make sure they communicate clearly with you if you just make known your needs .

Another problem with using Google Translate (or similar): you really can't be sure of what you're asking (what if the translation isn't accurate?), so their answer might also be inaccurate and then you've got another mess.

 

I will never forget overhearing the following conversation in Paris.

Customer at a cafe: "Well, why can't you take American dollars?"
Waiter: "Because you are in France"

 

Ah. Well, most has already been answered. Here is how I handle foreign houses if they ask for added fees. I just use their checkout system and pay whatever it tells me to. Some houses will re-calculate your invoice to reflect the new amount. Some dont. Whatever. I have done it this way since Paypal was first being accepted. Sometimes their software wont add the desired fee and I just pay the invoice. I have never been asked for that small token about after the fact.

 

Hmmm... I don't see an automatic checkout option for this particular auction house. Looks like I'm just going to have to pay via invoice.

 

I just one a 5 coin lot from an auction that also charged me the paypal fee of 3.37%. I don't begrudge them the fee, but I wish they would let you know in advance (maybe I didn't read the fine print. I'm getting good at overlooking things lately).

 

Most auctions I've bought from that allow payment by PayPal include a statement somewhere on the invoice to "add x% for PayPal" to the invoiced amount. Usually 3.5% or thereabouts. As for writing an email to non-English speaking countries, I almost always write in English with a lead sentence "Please pardon me writing in English". Keep the sentences simple (in case they use Google translate). A few times, I've used Google translate. In those cases I also used simple sentences to facilitate correct translation.

 

Honestly I have never really liked the add-ons. This was discussed in another post, and I can sympathize. The way business should be done is to incorporate cost into sale price. After that discounts can be given to those using more traditional and fee free payment options. But, its a changing world. I recently discovered one of my credit card companies is now charging a foreign currency conversion fee. Last transaction of about $7,500 it was $250. That adds a lot to the end price (after customs taxes). Next time I will use Paypal linked to my credit card to avoid those fees (there is always a way around pesky fees!).

 

You can ask for a new invoice, or adjust how much you send them. I thought PayPal showed how much you send and how much the seller receives. For most purchases I make, credit card fees or PP fees of 2 - 4% are less than the charges for bank drafts originating in the US.
I have a travel credit card to avoid foreign transaction fees.
I think the card companies and PayPay make a percent or two on the currency conversion rate, like the money changers outside the temple in Matthew 21:12.

 

I've been considering getting one of these cards. Any of us that buy in European auctions get hit with these fees all the time. Has it worked as promised? Do they simply make up for no exchange fees with higher interest rates (@Ken Dorney cost-of-doing-business model)?

 

One thing that no one has mentioned is that paypal fees are higher for foreign currency transactions. It has been a while since I did one but I think the difference was 1%.

 

During my trip to Italy last Fall, I used my Bank of America VISA extensively. They had assured me that there would be no added fee for exchange rates (Euros for dollars).

When I received the VISA statement, I was stunned by how GOOD the exchange rate was on a daily basis. It turned out to be essentially the best exchange rate possible on any given day. Really, I don't know how B of A makes a profit on exchange rates other than via a huge volume of transactions each day. Previously I had not been a big fan of B of A, but my experience last fall changed my opinion about their VISA card. The rates were noticeably better than my Schwab debit card rates, which I used for getting Euros at ATMs (and the Schwab rate was pretty good).