Grade my Grades / Analysis of my Latest Cherry Picks Please!

What percentage of the obverse would you say is Red?

That calculation is only supposed to look at just the fields, right?

In that case, I see the obverse as 75% - 80% red, and the reverse as 100% red, and I averaged them out to come out to be up to 87.5% - 90% red. Then by NGC standards (must be 85% - 90% red), it'll be close to borderline but plausibly RD instead of RB. Or, is the standard that each side must be 85% - 90% red?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I'm at 64RB on the cent and 63 on the half.

 

Its hard for me to see on my lap top but now that I look at it you might get red from PCGS

 

No, not at all. Where did you hear that? They look at the whole coin.

 

Would you call this coin RD, or RB?

 

Too late. That ship done sailed already for me, amigo. Many years - darkroom rat - exotic processes - can't think straight, aight, aight... Cibachrome itself must've cost me a few million neurons.

Before I dived back into coins I was an award-winning printmaker in the 80's. Some of that background is why I can't take toned coins too seriously. I've seen too much.

 

RB

 

Given a hypothetical MS copper cent with red fields, what if the devices have super frosty surfaces, making it essentially a thick white color there? Isn't that technically nearly 50% or so white on red fields then? Or, is that the exception to the RB rule by say, NGC, where 85-95% has to be red for an RD designation?

If frosty devices are an exception, then what if there's toning on the devices only, while the fields are red?

 

I'm not sure what you are asking? A silver coin could have super frosty white surfaces. The reverse of your cent has frost reddish surfaces (including the devices). The entire surface of the coin is evaluated for toning to determine RD vs RB, including the devices.

 

I edited my post to be more clear.

I need some clarification from you folks on this whole red vs. red-brown designation.

 

I understand what you are asking now.

The basic idea is, even a "frosty" copper coin will still be red colored. It isn't going to be white. ("Frosty" is a very imprecise term with no real definition - it is slang)

The basic point is "untoned" versus "toned" over the entire coin. It doesn't matter if the toning is on the devices or the fields - red is red, not-red is not-red.

 

Ok thanks for clearing that up for me. Now that I think about it, a frosty device is a result of the bead blasted device (on Moderns), so it's more of a finish effect than toning. Sort of like how the color changes on say, brushed finish steel vs polished steel, but far more drastic (not sure if that is the right analogy).

One more q... is NGC saying that a copper coin has to be 85-90% red on each side, or as an average or aggregate surface color of both sides?

If the latter, the reverse can be 100% red, while the obverse can be 70% red which averages out to be 85%. But I have a hunch that it's the stricter former rule that's followed.

 

The *what* now??!?

 

Sand blasting with glass beads and aluminum oxide for modern proofs.

 

Oh, gotcha, for the cameos. Yes, they used to do that. Now they are laser etched.

 

My grade assessment on these two coin is very similar to Jason's.

1909 VDB Lincoln Cent: The stain on the obverse is very distracting and I think the coin gets and Uncirculated Details for either environmental damage or just damage.

1893 Columbian Half Dollar: This coin has been dipped and retoned in what appears to be an album. There are hairlines in the obverse field to the right of the bust which indicates some measure of mishandling and could easily warrant an AU58 grade. The photos make the coin appear devoid of luster and that in combination with the fact that the coin has been dipped is very concerning. When one also considers how many Columbians display deep toning, that concern about the dipping and potential loss of luster is heightened even more. There seem to be many people in this thread who are high on this coin, I'm not one of them.

I don't think the TPG will grade it AU, but I do think they will net grade it and I don't think they will be kind. The grades of classic commemoratives are highly dependent upon luster and surface flaws are highly penalized as these coins were designed for collectors, not circulation. I say the TPGs grade this coin MS62.