Well, we all know that the way ebay is run is not fair to the sellers, and by allowing sniping it's not air to the buyers either. The only fair way for everyone is the way another auction site (non coin) I have dealt with does it. Each item has a specific ending date and time, however, any bid received within the final 15 minutes of the ending time extends the end by another 15 minutes. You can bid at 5 seconds before the published end time but your bid extends the end and allows others to bid for another 15 minutes. This protects the seller by not being held to a low ball snipe and protects the bidder by not allowing last second overbids. I've communicated this concept to ebay but they're not interested in trying it.
I really don't care what other bidders do. I bid what it's worth to me. If I get it for that price or less, fine. If goes for more than that, fine, but I won't be the one paying. Doesn't matter the venue ... eBay, Great Collections, Heritage, etc. That said, even though I've bought hundreds of items via eBay auctions, I have yet to buy a coin via an eBay auction. Could be because I've seldom bid on coins there. I use eBay for two things regarding coins: a. buy-it-now for inexpensive coins (under $100) from off-shore sellers, b. seeing what certain dealers are offering. If I see a coin I like, I may call, make a deal, and pay directly by check. Most of my collection was acquired at auction, but not via eBay. Cal
That by definition is their maximum bid and no different than what happens at auction houses. Bids only go as high as a person goes, if they bid it that is their max or below their max, nowhere can make someone bid above what they agree too. As for the story you told about the coin going for two much, obviously two people didn't think so since it takes two to get bids to the level it got to. Regardless in no way is that eBay's fault nor a poor reflection on them or a sniping program. The bidder set the bid and if they tried to back out of it at an auction house there would be consequences. That isn't the sniping programs that is the bidders. The programs only do what they are told to do. They programs aren't competing against each other they are bidding up to the maximum the user told them to bid too. The programs aren't Skynet, they don't get competitive, they have no emotion, and they don't decide what something is worth to the user. They only do what they are told to do. Whether ll the bids occur in the last 5 seconds or over the course of a week is irrelevant, they are still user dictated bids and the only way the bid goes up is if someone else pushes it up. In actuality sniping programs actually make things go for less then they would have, manual bidders don't have time to react to them that may have been willing to go higher. Putting in a max bid too early leaves options open for people to fish for what it is if they really want to which is not a practice that I approve of but it does happen. The reason why places ban and actively try and block sniping programs is they make house bids much harder to maximize the price. Instead of the maximum bid being stored in the system it is off site and hidden from everything but the program, it also takes away the ability for two people to keep maximizing the price unless someone else had the program There is nothing to fear or even complain about those programs. Put in a max bid with 4-8 seconds left and let the chips fall where they may. The program won't do anything that the other bidder wouldn't have done anyway with putting in their max bid near the end. The only difference is someone doesn't have the time to counter back with the snipe program. If an auction ends and someone thinks they wished they had bid a little more then their max bid should have reflected that in the first place. Really it is no different then having an automated agent placing bids on your behalf.
1. Any snipe is good for the seller. A "low ball snipe" is an oxymoron since that snipe increased the bid...the seller would have received less without the snipe. 2. This method does not protect the bidder in any way and bidders should not need protection (buying inaccurately described items or fakes, etc aside) as again if they are responsible the worst case scenario is their max bid is exceeded and they don't win the auction. If your worst case is ever worse than that, it's on you.
CoinFacts and other online auction prices realized will tell you at a glance how likely it is that this situation applies. See a lot of recent prices all the same? Bid now. See scatted prices both in time and amount? Monitor the bidding such that you don't miss submitting your max. Can't find squat for guidance? Look at the auctioneer's track record for estimates, wait, and don't bid so much that a mistake would be deeply regrettable (picture to follow when I receive latest purchase in a week or so).
I've seen a lot of "scatted" prices. Just hold my nose and pass by quickly. Sorry, couldn't resist. Cal
Not if they're being used in place of early bids. An early bid serves to advertise interest in the auction, and interest attracts interest.
Someone who is sniping is never going to be an early bidder anyways because they understand there's no point to bidding early. So there's never really a time where someone puts in a last second bid in place of bidding earlier. They are never bidding early, period. So their snipe still is benefiting the seller because no matter what happened up until the last few seconds the final bid will now be higher because of them. I never bid until less than 10 seconds because there's no point in doing so earlier than that it can only hurt you. Early bidders also help the sellers a ton as well no doubt. They just don't know what they're doing.
I think we're more in agreement than disagreement, but I'm not making my point clearly enough, and I don't have time right now to do a better job. Maybe later.
Plus most places allow you to see how many people are tracking or watching an item which also drives interest
Not really. I was responding to post #41. You missed that. The concept that my "high bid" not being really being my "high bid" if I am outbid and the need to extend the end of auction until everyone decides that their "high bid" was really their "high bid" is nuts. It never ends. Make a decision. The time is set. If you lose, you lose. Get over it and try again next time. If it is a lowball on the seller, that's life.
eBay has conditioned me over the years to place bids within the last 10 seconds of the auction. Their style of auction almost demands it because there is no allowance to respond to a higher bidder. The timeframe is absolute, and at this point, so many people are using sniping programs or manually sniping, it is almost a necessity for popular items. I'm a bit more relaxed with live auctions where I have the opportunity to respond to a higher bid. I may put in a 90% bid well ahead of the end time, and monitor the auction live, responding to other bidders as needed. I have lost out on great pieces because of a last second snipe, and I have won great pieces by being that last second bidder.
My feeling is as long as your happy with what you bought and what you paid then it's all a win. I'm sure I've overpaid on some coin auctions but it doesn't bother me in the least because I was and still am happy with my purchases Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Of course not, because that would result in much lower prices being realized. Two things make ebay a successful venue for coins - greed and ignorance. All it takes is a little bit of thought to realize that.
I'm genuinely curious to see why you think offering potential unlimited more opportunities for bidders to bid would result in lower realized prices. There is only one indirect reason I can think of if that happens to be where you're coming from.
It's pretty simple, for the same reason it works in live auctions. Because a person will stop and think and not bid anymore. The sniping programs will not, they keep going until they reach whatever limit was set. And that's always been my entire point. Most people don't set realistic limits when they use those programs. They set their limit at a number that is higher, often much higher, that what they are really willing to pay.
