Question on Rotated Die / Clash Marks

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by jwitten, May 16, 2017.

  1. jwitten

    jwitten Well-Known Member

    I posted this coin awhile back, but just noticed something weird about the clash marks. If I'm not mistaken, the clash marks on the date side correspond with a correct die orientation coin, not 180 degree rotated coin, yet the coin is 180 rotated. How was this done?
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  3. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    I would guess the dies clashed and as a result of this, they rotated.
     
  4. jwitten

    jwitten Well-Known Member

    Hmm. How are the dies attached? Could them colliding with each other really be all it takes to turn them 180 degrees? Seems like they would have to be more secure than that.
     
  5. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Mine was just a deductive guess. Wait for some of the gurus who have worked at the mint (or have a good understanding of the minting process).
     
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  6. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    BTW, pretty coin
     
  7. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    I think the following scenarios would best explain the rotation. After the clash occurred in the normal alignment;

    a) A mint worker removed the die for rework after the clash and installed it wrong

    b) the clash (or something else) my have loosened or broken something that allowed the dies to rotate. It may have taken numerous strikes for the full rotation to occur strikes.

    I'm leaning towards a). If b) is true, there should be other rotated dies coins out there. The only reference I have that might address this is Breen's Encyclopedia and it doesn't say anything about rotated dies for the 1861. Not good proof, but something of a start.
     
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  8. jwitten

    jwitten Well-Known Member

    I've owned a few 180 degree rotations for the date, but have never seen any rotations that are midway between that and normal
     
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  9. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    Maybe that suggests that the die was reinstalled incorrectly
     
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  10. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member

    My guess is, the dies clashed, a mint worker pulled the hammer die, gave it a quick once over to see if the clashing was enough to warrant a tooling of the die. Once they looked it over determined it was ok as is, then just plain installed it in the wrong orientation because they were in a haste to get production going again. Then someone a little later noticed the die was installed in the wrong orientation and it eventually was rotated back.
     
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  11. furham

    furham Good Ole Boy

    Exactly. I did it myself many times during my working career, but my mistakes were only on a piece or two.
     
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