Is there a defining date/s for/between ancients to midevil to modern? Or is it just a matter of opinion? Also is there a classification between midevil, and modern? Thanks.
Matter of opinion really, and yeah it can vary widely depending upon whom you ask. That said, once upon a time in a galaxy far, far, away .......... ancient was anything minted before Charlemagne medieval was anything minted from Charlemagne on until the 1600's renaissance was after 1600 until 1800 early modern was anything minted after 1800 and modern was anything minted after 1964
The usual definition I've seen for coins is that "ancient" covers everything up to the end of the Western Roman Empire in AD 476, "medieval" covers from 476 up to the Renaissance around 1500, and "modern" is everything after that. Naturally, there are problems with this definition. Byzantine coins are usually considered ancient, and while some Byzantine coins were struck before 476 the last Byzantine coins weren't struck until 1453. Thus we have "ancient" Byzantine coins struck at the same time as "medieval" Western European coins. Also, the cutoff date for medieval to modern is rather arbitrary- the Renaissance was a process, not a single sudden event. 1500 is mostly just a nice, convenient round number. The situation gets more complicated if we move away from Europe. The early 7th century makes a convenient time to divide ancient and medieval for most of the Mideast and Asia: The spread of Islam introduced a new coinage style (along with a new form of culture) over a vast area, and the start of the Tang dynasty in 618 stabilized Chinese coins in the square-hole, 4-character format that would prevail for another 13 centuries. But neither the Islamic world nor China experienced an event akin to the Renaissance around 1500, so the medieval/modern split point is harder to decide. Steve Album, in his "Checklist of Islamic Coins", ends his listings with the advent of modern machine-struck coinage, which in most of the Islamic world wasn't until the 19th century. China similarly continued the old coin method of casting square-holed bronze or brass coins until the very late 19th/early 20th century. TL,DR: It's complicated.
This is interesting, since the Renaissance was basically over by 1600 (and over long before 1800) as the baroque era came along. Any reason why such a late date would be considered "Renaissance"?
Putting dates to such transitions is tricky but I largely agree with what @Parthicus said above. For me it's convenient to think of some of the watershed events in history as the demarcation for the different eras. Sept. 4, AD 476 - Odocer forces the last Roman Emperor (Romulus Augustulus) to abdicate. - The end of ancient coinage and beginning of medieval. May 29, AD 1453 - Constantinople falls to the Ottoman Turks under Memhed II ending the Eastern Roman Empire - The end of medieval and beginning of early modern coinage. The Renaissance is tricky to define depending if you are talking in terms of art or science and has some overlap with the above but a good couple of place holder dates for me are; Ca. AD 1320 - Dante Alighieri completes the Divine Comedy - Beginning of the Renaissance. January 8, 1642 - Galileo dies - end of the Renaissance. Of course others will have different thoughts about the eras and if you asked a US collector what a "modern" coin is they would probably say post 1964 (the end of the silver standard in the US)
The word was just used as a name for a given time period in reference to coins. Not in reference to when the renaissance actually occurred. But I did screw up, I should have used 1500 as a cut-off and start point, not 1600 - to define that time period.
Thanks again to all. Good information here. One more question, 1964 is the agreed upon date for "modern" coinage due mainly to the U.S. moving away from circulating silver (dropping to 40% at first), so does the rest of the world also consider 1964 the date that moderns start? Not all countries changed their silver content that year? Not a very important question, but is a question nonetheless. Thanks again. John.
Not even everybody in the US considers it to be the break line, let alone the rest of the world. Lemme put it this way, if you asked 100 people your questions, you'd probably get at least 80 different answers. And that's just in the US.
Some Other countries had silver in their coins up to 1970's Few had even later. Canada 68-69 area. USA had 40% silver halves til 1970
No, of course. In Italy we call "modern" (or, better to say, "contemporary") the coins from 1800 to date, and metal it's not so important for beginning or end of an age. We struck silver for circulation (500 lire) until 1967, when a rise in the silver price caused their massive tesaurization, making them disappear from circulation, but this date does not matter to us. I don't know what happens in another european countries, but I think that, for example, in Great Britain, the beginning of modern coins could be 1971, when they introduced the decimal system...and so on. And for us, the Middle Age ends with discovery of America petronius
About the same here. Silver was used in German 5 DM circulation coins until 1974, but the switch to Cu-Ni in '75 was not a "relevant" change. Partly because collector coins, issued at face, would still have silver, but also because there are other, more important dates. One could pick 1948/1949 (currency reform and first coins from this country) or 1999/2002 (changeover to the euro) for example. When it comes to import/export law, the 100 years threshold is relevant; older pieces are considered to be antiquities. But of course that would be a relative "date" that changes every year. Another important change, at least in Europe, was going from hammered coinage to machine struck coins. That occurred roughly in the 17th century, and for some collectors that is a more decisive criterion than terms that apply to arts and architecture ... Christian
Agreed and then for the US I consider "Modern" to be anything after 1836 because that marked the end of the hand made dies (after that point all dies were fully hubbed except for the date/mintmark) and the switch from muscle power for striking coins (Screw press) to steam power (Toggle Press).[/quote][/quote]
Thanks to all for the input. @GDJMSP , you were absolutely right about the variation of opinions just in the U.S., not to mention the rest of the world. I didn't expect that the rest of the world would consider "modern" to be the same as the U.S., but wanted to add that information (opinions) to this thread. "Not so simple" indeed.
Are you sure on that point Michael ? And I'm asking, not arguing. And I am asking because I have been told that that did not happen until 1870 or so. But I really would like to know a definitive answer.
I'm pretty dang sure because after 1836 variety specialists stop using positional relationships between the lettering and the central devices to identify varieties because they no longer change. All coins of a given year have all the features in the same position. The date was still hand punched so after 1836 that is the feature and it's positional changes that it most used for variety identification. Now the MASTER die may have still been hand done but it would have been used for multiple years. Until about 1868 or 69 they were using a Master Die/ Working Hub/working die system. It was in 68 or 69 they went to the Master Hub/ Master. Die/. Working Hub/Working die system. That could be what they meant. They weren't using Master hubs until about 1870.
