I remember reading somewhere last year in one of my magazines. About the mint using proof dies on the production line. I'll have to go back and see if I can find out article someday. But take a look for yourself. Now the overs on the left is the proof die coin and the one on the right is a circulated coin. The only way I could show there was a difference in the surface of each coin was to use the filter. All I'll say is I wish the mint would have use these dies for their mint sets. If you take a look at this bottom photo you can see the difference in the texture from the one above The one above I personally believe is a proof die.
let me ask this... what makes you think that they are struck from proof dies? Is there a specific feature that you believe is specific to proof dies that you see present on this coin? Because the proof dies don't have a P mintmark, they have an S mintmark, and IIRC, the hub for the proof dies has an S as well, making it difficult to change the mintmark on the die without any sign of the change.
Now, on the other hand, if you think they may have been struck from satin finish Mint Set dies, I think that it's considerably more likely, although I am not advocating that to be the case, either. Do you think Mint Set dies, or Proof Set dies?
Look basically I don't know what's going on, this is a poor example I'm going to try and do better I have over a half a roll Of These Coins definitely not from a production die. I do not believe there even from a first strike I'll try and get some better photos. I'm just learning how to use This new camera not quite used to its little quirks. All cameras have their likes and dislikes.I always thought commercial dies were the same as the mint set. Because every mint set that I have looks like it's been pulled out of the commercial coinage bends and made into the mint sets. I'm sure like others I have found better coins in circulation than I have in sealed mint sets.
The Mint Sets of 2005-2010 were made using a special finish. The coins from these sets grade relatively high and are a much better version of these coins than their commercial counterparts. Your Kansas quarter came from this "special" Mint Set era. The Mint Set would have included P Mint coins, so this is also not a stretch with your coins, at least not like the S Mint mark being turned into a P would have to be. If I understand your supposition, you are pointing out the texture in the fields of the coin, or am I misunderstanding? This texture would be more consistent with SMS coinage than with proof coins which would have mirrored fields.
Like I said I really don't know what's going on. If you had a hand of quarters, these quarters would be the first ones that you pulled out of your hand. Because when you're looking at the quarters in your hand these quarters stand out and slap you upside the head. They're not like the other quarters that you have, they visually stand out among the other quarters. If they made a proof circulated quarter this one would fall into the category. I'm sure I'm not the only one out there that has come across these kinds of quarters. Like I said last year read an article in coin world about the mint doing something to help promote new collectors into collecting coins. I don't know what would happen if Tom at the mint was told to take a couple of the circulated dies And give them a good polishing with a mirror finish I personally believe this is something that may have happened. And these quarters are the results. I personally do not know what kind of affect it would have if you polished a circulated die and struck a regular circulated planchet what the outcome would be. That's what makes these quarters so unusual they have such a polished luster about them. USMC60
Let's try a couple more photos this one is a little better, used a different camera The coin on the left you can actually see the difference. Now the coin on the right is out of a mint roll from the mint I'm sure you can see the difference. USMC60
The difference between the two Hawaii quarters lies in the age of the die. Fresh dies of current coinage tend to have a rather reflective, proof-like field. This was not due to any surreptitious die preparation, rather it's the way they're all made. The earliest strikes from these dies have the same reflective fields. As a die is used, it wears from metal flow, and the reflective field gives way to a more satiny field. This is why coins fresh from the mint can have the both appearances.
messydesk It's been a while.I may not be the sharpest tool in the box. Know exactly what you mean about first straight coins, especially with brand-new dies. I have been able to spot those with no problem. I also have a tendency to keep those when I come across them. They make excellent replacements for the ones that I have in the album that are out of mint rolls. You know me when something just doesn't look right I have a tendency to keep pursuing it.1878cc this coin bothered me for 16 years. But I did manage to find out exactly what the anomalies were. messydesk I've been looking for a first strike coin I'm more likely to come across one with the 2017 quarters that are coming out. In my area. If I come across one I'll post a comparison. I respect your experience and knowledge, you help me out last year. And I was completely satisfied with your services. But I still had that little itch on the back of my neck. Something not right. USMC60 PS You know what they say about scuttlebutt most of the time what they're saying is right. Referring to the mint messing around.
It's been noted that proof dies cannot be used because of the mint mark I will totally agree with that. That only leaves us with circulated dies being the culprit.Truthfully about these coins, is that I found them in bankrolls, and they exhibit a extremely polished luster. None of us can say when exactly that coin went through the coinage press. And definitely cannot say that it is a first strike. I admit I had wrong definition for first strike coin. Some of the rolls you get from the bank you would not be able to tell when that coinage left the mint to be qualified for a first strike. Even though the boxes that I pick up sometimes. I know that that coinage left the mint and went to the Federal Reserve in Miami, then to the brinks rolling company to be distributed out to banks. But then again I do not know when that coinage left the mint. So I cannot say if this is first-steke coinage. None of us knows. The only coin I will swear to in a court of law is a first-strke coin according to Numismatic definition would be this coin Now you say USMC60 how can you swear that this is a first strike coin.First I ordered it from the mint the day it went on sale, second it was in my hands within three weeks after I ordered it, so it falls into the first strike definition. Now for all my fans out there who thinks this old Marine has fallen off his rocker again. I am going to say these coins that I'm finding could possibly be the first minute of production or even five minutes I'm not sure how long it takes for that die to heat up. I believe these are cold strike coins. USMC60
Whenever you’re trying to prove something new in an established field of study, be prepared for a lot of disagreement. This is true whether it’s science, mathematics, or numismatics. Your theory that non-business strike dies were used for business strikes is interesting and may be true. However, you’re going to need incontrovertible proof. Throwing out the theory on CT isn’t a bad idea, but be prepared when it’s challenged. So far, I haven’t seen anything on here that even remotely supports the mint reused special dies, just a lot of opinions and they are like a part the human anatomy; everyone has one (and I think some folks on here have more than one). Can you find any die markers on the Satin finish coins that match with your business strikes? Can you show some mint correspondence or records that suggest these dies may have been used. Can you get hobby research experts guys like Alexander, Dannreuther, or Wexler (not the wannabes like us) interested? Until then, don't get agitated if your ideas get slammed. Once again, it’s an interesting idea, but needs a lot more work
Sir thank you for your quote. I will agree with you about the truth and proof. You mentioned the word satin finish. These coins are far from having a satin finish. As I stated briefly earlier these coins could possibly be first minute strikes or cold strikes.I have been searching for photographs of coins that have been struck within the first minute. And I only mean business strike coins not special sets are special issue, this is were everyone is going with their predictions. And if you think about it there only could be a limited number of these coins. It depends on how many presses the mint had set up. Close as we well know these machines put out 750 coins a minute. I'm really hoping the experts will chime in on this one. Warm planchet cold die. This strike is going to be difference in appearance than a coin struck later by a hot die in a warm planchet. I think that could explain the coins that occasionally show up. Because there are really in low quantities and three out the United States. And please if anyone can show me a photo of a business strike coin from strike number 1 to strike number 750. USMC60
USMC while I am really compelled by what you're suggesting, the photo that you have posted shows otherwise. If you look at your Wyoming quarter at the bottom of the bust, you'll see a die crack. This is something not found on first strike coins, in fact it suggests quite the opposite. I am trying to reconcile the surfaces of the fields on your coin and they appear not to be completely flat and lusterous as I would expect from a brand new die, but instead they appear to have a texture almost like an orange peel which is more in line with die fatigue and dies that have seen a rather large amount of use. Your original supposition of shiny fields like a proof is what I would expect from a first strike off of a die, but your photos show surfaces that suggest (at least to me) quite the opposite.
As far as the photography Goes I couldn't agree with you more. You work with what you have and sometimes you just not get the results you want. I'm not a professional photographer never claimed to be one. The best photos that I took to demonstrate the texture of the surface would be the filtered Zeke photos.You can see by the top photo which shows areas without petting. Is a completely different strike than the one below. But they both could've came out of the same production run, but the top coin was struck like I said within the first minute or maybe even to. And as far as the Wyoming quarter, do you know when in the production run when the die starts to change in any way Or fail. I personally cannot say. USMC60 PS is not forget that is a business strike planchet. so it is gonna retain most of the original surface.
I got a bring up the Wyoming quarter again. It seems like me you take a different meaning for first strike.This is what I found as far as first strike definition. What exactly is a “First Strike?” In general, a third party grading service gives a “First Strike” designation to those coins packaged for shipment from the U.S. Mint within a month of their official release date. That's the only reason I make this statement about the Wyoming quarters being first strike. USMC60
The TGC's "first strike" designation does not have any correlation to actual strike quality. If I had to make a guess, I'd say the proof-like-ish surface is probably the result of refurbishing an aging die in order to extend it's life.
Not only do I like finding these first strike coins, I hope to continue finding them.And this definition I definitely like. First Strike A coin struck shortly after a new die is placed into service. First strike coins often are the most coveted by collectors, having sharper details and even sometimes proof-like qualities. USMC60
