Sabina denarius - fake or genuine

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by gogili1977, May 9, 2017.

  1. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    I ask for your opinion on denarius of Sabina, which I recently got. 20170305_074713.jpg 20170305_074736.jpg
    And I found one in https://www.acsearch.info
    Numismatik Naumann (formerly Gitbud & Naumann)
    Auction 26, lot 575, from 14. Dec. 2014
    SABINA (Augusta, 128-137). Denarius. Rome.
    Obv: SABINA AVGVSTA.
    Draped bust right.
    Rev: IVNONI REGINAE.
    Juno standing left with patera and sceptre.
    RIC 395a.
    Condition: Very fine.
    Weight: 3.69 g.
    Diameter: 17 mm.
    2289279-isti.jpg
     
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  3. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Hard to say from the pic, but looks okay to me. A die match for the other one.
     
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  4. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I agree with Randy. Obverse and reverse die match. Beyond that, it's difficult to say based the images.
     
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  5. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Looks OK to me?
     
  6. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Authentic. However, I'm not sure if it's a die match. Possibly.
     
  7. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Looks okay to me.
     
  8. AngelDeath

    AngelDeath Well-Known Member

  9. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    I would be concerned. There are some things I would find troubling. The first is that the two coins have essentially the same basic shape. The other is the weird shape of the letters especially the N in SABINA. Another feature that is troubling is that while the exergue line is different, the Naumann specimen does not extend to the staff, suggesting a different die, but their is a small die break on both coins right below the A in REGINAE.
     
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  10. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Yah sorry, I'm thinking that it could be a fake ... as Terence stated above, the flan shape is identical (bad sign) ... and TIF stated that the dies are identical (sure, it's okay to have similar dies, but having similar dies and similar flan shape is a real double-boner)

    ... if there is a doubt, there is no doubt (I'd bail on it)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
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  11. Carthago

    Carthago Does this look infected to you?

    I agree with Terence. I noticed the exergue before reading his post and I think the coin in question has a strange look to it. I don't like it but can't really prove it.
     
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  12. Black Bart

    Black Bart Member

    I'm also concerned. There are too many matching anomalies to not be the same die: the small field hole in the die below the A and the two parallel lines above the portrait (scratches in die?) stand out. As mentioned, the two coins have basically the same shape. The extended exergue line is the most obvious difference but that could easily have been achieved with wax applied to the host coin before replicating. Do I see two small "mounds" in the exergue on gogili's coin? It would be helpful to view the coin's edge (not to mention a clearer overall photo). Definitely needs more investigation in my opinion.
     
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  13. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    Some details I try to capture with digital microscope draw_0509_1.jpg 0510-2.jpg 0509-5.jpg
     
  14. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    Some photos of coin edge with digital microscope 0510-3.jpg 0510-4.jpg 0510-5.jpg 0510-6.jpg 0510-7.jpg
     
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  15. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    Some more pictures of the coin 0510-8.jpg 0510-9.jpg 0510-10.jpg
     
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  16. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

  17. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Here's my example of the coin. Not a die match. Purchased from Pegasi in 2001.

    Sabina IVNO REGINAE Denarius.jpg
     
  18. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    A few more pictures to help evaluation of Sabina denarius: 1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg
     
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  19. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    I'm not that great at spotting fakes, but again, the similar flan size gives me the creeps ... but maybe it is worth sending this one to Sear?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Black Bart

    Black Bart Member

    Thanks for the new photos. The edge does not suggest casting. In my opinion the only perplexing issue remaining is the extended length of the exergue line on your coin. Barring a Roman die re-engraving effort the most plausible explanations for the shorter line on the Naumann coin are that the right end of the line simply did not "strike up" or that the die was partially "filled".

    The similarity of flan shapes is probably coincidental as the many unique Naumann obverse striking irregularities are missing on your coin. I do notice that your coin has a slightly granular surface which is bothersome as is the general lack of expansion edge cracks. If you paid enough for the coin I think you should consider sending it to David Sear for peace of mind.
     
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  21. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    I paid 110 eur for the coin, probably it would be cost a lot to send a coin from eastern Europe to David Sear?
     
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