A Tiny Detail On a Titus Denarius

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by David Atherton, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I purchased my latest coin because it has a minor variant I find pretty interesting. It goes without saying this variant is mostly unnoticed by dealers and collectors alike. I'm a sucker for numismatic minutiae.

    T124.jpg
    Titus
    AR Denarius, 3.35g
    Rome Mint 80 AD
    RIC 124c (C2), BMC 62, RSC 313a
    Obv: IMP TITVS CAES VESPASIAN AVG P M; Head of Titus, laureate, bearded, r.
    Rev: TR P IX IMP XV COS VIII P P; Seat, draped; above, triangular frame with nine palmettes, lituus within triangle
    Acquired from M. Veissid & Co. (eBay), April 2017.

    A rare variant of this common 'pulvinaria' type showing a lituus within the triangle. Perhaps one in ten dies have this variant. The upcoming RIC II.1 Addenda notes that some specimens may show a lituus.

    This denarius was struck possibly to commemorate the religious ceremonies connected with the opening games of the Colosseum.

    Also of interest is the fantastic 'bull-necked' portrait. I have several other Titus denarii with a similar style of portrait (probably all from the same hand) and they are among my favourites.

    Fellow numismatic nerds, feel free to share any variant coins you may have.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
    chrsmat71, Deacon Ray, Smojo and 20 others like this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Neat. Nicer than the one I had, too.

    Mine was sans-lituus.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    That is an awfully neat little detail! In fact, it's so tiny I can't really tell if it's a lituus or Baby Groot :D.

    A Hadrian denarius with a rare bust variant unrecorded in RIC but known from one example in the Reka Devnia hoard. Hadrian is shown with the strap of a balteus, or sword belt, across his chest.

    Hadrian - Balteus c.jpg
    HADRIAN
    AR Denarius. 3.23g, 20.9mm, Rome mint, AD 119-122. RIC 82 var. (bust type); BM 164 note. O: IMP CAESAR TRAIAN HADRIANVS AVG, laureate, draped, cuirassed bust right, balteus (sword belt) strap over shoulder and across chest. R: P M TR P COS III, Concordia seated left, holding patera.
     
    chrsmat71, Deacon Ray, Smojo and 15 others like this.
  5. Okidoki

    Okidoki Well-Known Member

    great coin but its not a balteus but a baldric strap, :D
    best

    eric
     
    gregarious likes this.
  6. Okidoki

    Okidoki Well-Known Member

    Nice winner David,
    Hadrian Denarius Roma 134-38 AD Hadrian standing not veiled 355Hadrian RIC290.jpg
     
  7. Okidoki

    Okidoki Well-Known Member

    Salus draped standing left, feeding serpent, who is wrapped round an altar, out of patera with right hand and holding sceptre. (sometimes a spear)
    small figure in altar Vulcanus?
    794Hadrian RIC138.JPG
     
    chrsmat71, Deacon Ray, Smojo and 12 others like this.
  8. alde

    alde Always Learning

    Not only does the OP Titus have a bull neck but he has quite a scowl on his face. It looks like he's trying to appear to be a tough guy. Another nice variety David.
     
    David Atherton likes this.
  9. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I used to consider myself a fan of minutiae but now I reserve my admiration for things that I see even a slight chance were considered meaningful by the die cutter rather than a simple random variation. That doe not mean that I must understand what the meaning was but it prevents me from lavishing attention on a legend split or stray dot on an equal footing with a more obvious inclusion or omission.

    For example, I have quite a few coins of Septimius Severus from the Syrian mints with Fortuna seated. The chairs vary in the way legs were decorated but only one in my collection shows cross bracing. Most have two horizotal dashes instead. Should I value this coin more than others? I would if I knew why that diecutter decided that it was good to add this detail to that one die. I noticed that coin was different over 50 years ago but it still is just a question with no answer. Would I buy another if I saw one? Yes but I would not pay extra quite yet. I guess I;m not so much a minutiae fan after all.
    rg0580bb1652.jpg rg0760b00039lg.JPG rg0770b00966lg.JPG rg0880b00158lg.JPG rg1780bb0691.jpg rg1810bb1356.jpg
     
    chrsmat71, Ajax, Valentinian and 12 others like this.
  10. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Denarii of Julia Domna from Rome with Venus shown from the rear have three variations separated by the trailing end of drapery wrapped around her rear. Some show cloth hanging left, some right and a few show it on both sides. Be careful to separate the end of the palm from a right side drapery.
    Left only
    rl5610bb0896.jpg

    Right only
    rl5710bb1657.jpg

    Both
    rl5690bb1282.jpg

    I care about this one because I believe it means something. What??? I find it interesting that while rare on Roman denarii, both sides is the standard for coins from Eastern mints.
    rk5240bb0682.jpg

    Meaning? The Venus type was replaced by Vesta seated left. She is shown with and without drapery extending to the right of the chair. Related? Too many questions....
    rl5880xx0225.jpg rl5870bb1323.jpg
     
    Ajax, Valentinian, Smojo and 7 others like this.
  11. Okidoki

    Okidoki Well-Known Member

  12. gregarious

    gregarious E Pluribus Unum

    Smojo, Alegandron and Okidoki like this.
  13. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I'm quite taken with this style of portraiture on Titus' denarii. Some of his finest dies have it.

    As a matter of fact, the first Titus denarius I ever purchased almost 14 years ago has the same portrait style.

    T115.JPG
    Titus
    AR Denarius, 3.40g
    Rome Mint, 80 AD
    RIC 115 (C2), BMC 43, RSC 303
    Obv: IMP TITVS CAES VESPASIAN AVG P M; Head of Titus, laureate, bearded, r.
    Rev: TR P IX IMP XV COS VIII P P; Elephant, stg. l.
    Acquired from Old Roman Coins, May 2003.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
    chrsmat71, Ajax, Valentinian and 8 others like this.
  14. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Yup, my understanding is that it's pretty much the same thing, and the description generally used by cataloguers.

    From wiki:
    "During ancient Roman times the balteus (plural baltei) was a type of baldric commonly used to suspend a sword. It was a belt generally worn over the shoulder, passing obliquely down to the side, typically made of leather, often ornamented with precious stones, metals or both."
     
  15. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    As far as minor variance, this is the one coin that would qualify. Unlike a hundred other Augustus denarii of the same type, this one has a tiny x on the reverse in combination with the shields overlapping the opposite way. From my understanding, it is a fairly uncommon variety.

    That being said, I doubt anyone would pay extra for this variety vs the far more common type.

    ok5LK4kT5sY3Z8bQ9tcCgNz6r7JeR3.jpg
     
    chrsmat71, Ajax, Okidoki and 7 others like this.
  16. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    On the reverse of this follis of Constantine there is a B in the left field. It is an R4. The reverse with the A in the left field is an R2. There is also a version with a Z in the left field but I am not sure of the rarity of that one.

    RIC VII Constantinople 38b

    Constantine RIC 38.png
     
    chrsmat71, Ajax, Okidoki and 8 others like this.
  17. Nemo

    Nemo Well-Known Member

    Very interesting variant David, I've never noticed that detail before!
     
  18. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Mine has an Epsilon, also "r4", but there are so many varieties that, in total, there are 25 for sale on vcoins as I write.
    ConstantineCONSTANTINIANADAFNE.jpg
    20-19 mm. RIC Constantinople 29.
    CONSTANTINIANA DAFNE
    It has a pretty complicated reverse which has been explained several ways, from an allusion to the groves of Dafne near Antioch to a reference to a fort Dafne along the Danube. I don't know what this type means, but "DAFNE" is an unusual word on Roman coins.
     
    chrsmat71, icerain, Ajax and 5 others like this.
  19. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Titus does seem to be rather scowly on quite a few coins. Must've been a rather stern chap. The only ones I've seen who appear even more grouchy are perhaps Galba and Nerva. Nerva seems to have been quite the sourpuss.

    As to variants, I guess I'm not really observant enough or good enough at attribution to know I have a variant, most of the time. I guess that comes more with experience.

    This denarius from my novice 2007-08 collection was the first Vespasian coin I ever owned. If I remember correctly, the seller (Steve McBride of Incitatus Coins) suggested it was a portrait from very early in the reign, just as the 69 AD civil war was ending, and was likely engraved before Vespasian arrived in Rome and anyone knew what he looked like. It is certainly different from most Vespasian portraits I'm accustomed to seeing. He looks pretty young and serene here:

    [​IMG]

    True or not, I found the "nobody knew what he looked like yet" theory interesting.

    By comparison, from my present collection (speaking of sourpuss portraits):

    [​IMG]

    (Of course he was dead by the time the second coin was struck, so he can be forgiven for not looking as good. Vespasian supposedly died cracking a joke, though, so maybe he wasn't such a grouch.)
     
    chrsmat71, icerain, alde and 5 others like this.
  20. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    To me, the early coinage of Vespasian at Rome is interesting because it is transitional in style. There are some portraits you look at and think 'that's the Vespasian we all know' and then there are others that look like guess work. I suppose it's down to the individual engraver, but keep in mind Vespasian didn't arrive in Rome until the autumn of 70, almost a year after Rome fell to his supporters.

    If you want a Vespasian portrait with hair, look to these early issues!
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page