1921 Peace Dollar - Anyone seeing what I'm seeing?!

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Jupiter88, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. Jupiter88

    Jupiter88 "Chingalinga"

    I picked this up recently so these are the listing photos. Originally I was interested in this piece due to the missing motto letters and bridge of her nose, thinking that it was struck through with grease or even possibly a rare die adjustment error. Once the auction ended and I downloaded photos to save in my files, I had to blink a few times after taking a better look at the reverse?!

    Anyone seeing what I'm seeing?! A High relief obverse die paired with a low relief reverse die?

    I will post proper pics when it arrives and once it's been weighed in. If it turns out to be counterfeit, then bummer, but if genuine it will be interesting to check it out!


    1921 Peace poss. mint error.jpg

    1921 Peace poss. mint error..jpg

    1921 Peace poss. mint error.....jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
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  3. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member

    I highly doubt the authenticity of that piece. "Pun" intended. Sorry.
     
    C-B-D and dwhiz like this.
  4. ACoinJob

    ACoinJob There are still some out there to be had.

    "1924 S" PEACE DOLLAR... I ran into one in BU UNC-60 at a pawn shop. It was slabbed, and I could of had it for $40 when silver was $40 an ounce. But for shoots 'n giggles I'll quote a random price from the RED BOOK 2017 figures; A "1924 S" @ VF-20 my RED BOOK says $28. It might fool you if you think it's a 1921 S , it's not. See the crosslet on the last digit? It's a "4 not 1".
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
    cash4coin likes this.
  5. Jupiter88

    Jupiter88 "Chingalinga"

    Yea, agreed, but kind a fun that the reverse was an after-the-fact surprise Lol. Not usually that sloppy when purchasing, but honestly just thought (or was hoping) that I was picking up a struck through grease error due to the missing motto letters and the weird nose bridge. It becomes even more unlikely when the low relief reverse reflects the later B2 reverse variety, which I would have to assume wasn't used during the same time frame the known transitional pieces were produced.
     
  6. Jupiter88

    Jupiter88 "Chingalinga"

    Hi, I wasn't thinking there was a mint mark, but thank you for your info :) The obverse 1 is a solid 1 in the date, I attached a pic of my favorite 1924 Peace dollar for reference (the 4 is aligned right when compared with the designer initials above it, whereas the 1 in the 21 is aligned more even with the initials above). It's a good point to make sure and verify though, so thank you.
    306.JPG


    What's strange with this one, is that the obverse appears to reflect a high relief design but with a low relief reverse? The obverse is high relief based on the ray count in the coronet, the thickness of the rays and the positioning of the ray at the E, the R's have straighter tails, and the 2 has the look of a 21 high relief. Here is an obverse photo of my sharpest 1921 high relief for comparison.

    048.JPG

    The reverse appears to reflect the B2 low relief design vs. a 1921 high relief design. Some of the differences are, it has 3 mountains, 4 berries, no details on the eagles claw, a missing tail feather ray and only 3 rays below the "one". It also has longer rays at the top near the eagles head and some ray discrepancies below the eagle. Here is a photo of one of my 1922-P's, showing the B2 reverse low relief design for comparison.

    IMG_2573.JPG
    A 1921 high relief should reflect the "A" reverse, whereas this one doesn't. This will most likely result in the coin being a fraud as the probability of this happening, would be extremely rare and wouldn't make sense most likely per any mint records (I'm guessing here, but trying to be logical). I attached the matching "A" reverse to the 1921 above for comparison.

    053.JPG

    I mapped the differences out below for reference.

    1921 Peace poss. mint error....jpg

    1921 Peace poss. mint error...jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
    Coinman1974 likes this.
  7. Coinman1974

    Coinman1974 Research, Research, Research

    Impressive mapping!
     
    Jupiter88 likes this.
  8. Jupiter88

    Jupiter88 "Chingalinga"

    Haha, thanks! It's obvious that I should probably get a little bit more of a life :)
     
  9. Coinman1974

    Coinman1974 Research, Research, Research

    I am impressed with how you did that. Really need better programs on my laptop for that and a good scanner as well. Excellent photos, and excellent mapping of what you found, Outstanding!
     
    Jupiter88 likes this.
  10. Jupiter88

    Jupiter88 "Chingalinga"

    Thanks again :) These ones were actually thrown together quickly, could've been nicer! I use a super simple program that only my old laptop has and it's not on my newer one unfortunately and it's Microsoft paint. I could also do this in Bluebeam which is more complicated for me, or even in editing mode on Adobe PDF, but the simpler the better on programs I believe?
     
  11. ACoinJob

    ACoinJob There are still some out there to be had.

    I didn't think a 1921 S was possible. Is that a "S" mintmark above the tail feathers? That chunk taken out at the Adam's apple makes me think it was deliberate PMD.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  12. Jupiter88

    Jupiter88 "Chingalinga"

    I see what you're pointing out but I wouldn't think so, or at least my brain can't really wrap around that Lol? That would raise this to a whole other level if there were and it was actually determined authentic. If it shows up here with a mint mark, then I would almost immediately dismiss it as a fraud. If it were somehow to also weigh out properly and the edges didn't appear to have been soldered together from two different coins, then I'd probably send it in to ANACS for authentication? I'll know more once it's in hand, so will post updated results of my current coin escapade here :) Thanks!
     
  13. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    What is that by the mint mark area above and left of the tail feather?
     
  14. Jupiter88

    Jupiter88 "Chingalinga"

    I won't know until I receive it..but will update pics after, plus will weigh it
     
    Michael K likes this.
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