The Langbord and Gorsuch Connection

True, but it was the decision on the forfeiture that was being appealed wasn't it? If Langbord had won that appeal (as they had with the three judge panel) then that would have moved the ownership to Langbord at a point BEFORE the trial. In that case the trial should have never taken place and its results, even though it did occur, would have had no legal standing. In other words if they had won the decision that the government should have followed the forfeiture rules then it would be as if the trial never took place.

 

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Forfeiture occurs when the government takes YOUR property because of a criminal or civil violation.

No forfeiture is involved here because the government owns the coins. The government is taking back its property from someone who had it illegally - and was never entitled to possess it.

 

Bingo!

 

Just like selling a counterfeit, legal title to these 10 1933 $20's could never pass, and didn't pass. The King Farouk specimen was a compromise because the government incorrectly issued an export certificate for it. These 10 NEVER achieved legal status of any kind.

Same deal with the 1974-D aluminum cent.

 

Does anyone know if these 10 coins are part of the 13 coins known to exist?

 

Yes sir, believe so. These 10 plus Farouk 1 plus Smithsonian 2. There are rumors of up to 7 more out there. If you're Switt's accomplice, why not a round number like 20? And why not retain an easy proportion like half? Since the Smithsonian are from a separate source, that might mean 9 more are out there in hiding, rather than 7. Either way, officially "known" is 13.

We should know whether cert was granted on Tuesday. It may be over then. I'd like to see the 10 together at Denver in August. I'd also like to see the Langbords paid for 10 generic St.Gaudens $20's, but I doubt I will.

 

Since the Feds legally own the 10 in question, maybe they should cherrypick the best ones for the Smithsonian and turn the remaining 10 into bullion since it would be too costly to keep them or display them. After all, the Feds lost these 10 in the first place, why should they be held responsible for them now? As for the other 7 possibly remaining, they're no different from the 10 in question, so they're worth either melt value or only saleable on the black market.

 

The idea of melting most of those coins is painful, but it might save a whole lot of potential headaches.

 

Don't forget about the international market. As far as the Smithsonian they would probably just end up in the vault with everything else. My guess would be they will just sort of quietly disappear if the case isn't heard and the last verdict stands

 

I would personally hate to see these pieces of history melted.

I know they are technically stolen property because the mint never released them, but the law banning gold was repealed in 1974.

And for coins that HAVE been released, like the 1913 Liberty Head Nickel, there's no reason to put a ban them. Also they were released such a long time ago and we should just get over it.

 

That's just it...even though the gold ban was repealed, 33s were never legal in the first place. I agree with baseball21 in that they will just quietly disappear like they did in 1933. Since the Government forgot about them until they were foolishly returned for authentication, they should give them back to their caretakers and forget about them. 10 of those gems would be a nice addition to the numismatic community...even though their value will drop dramatically, no one will suffer any losses anyway.

 

At the time the forfeiture proceeding were initiated there had been no legal decision that the coins were stolen, so all you had was both sides saying the coins belonged to them, but the government had taken them so forfeiture proceeding were begun and the government didn't follow through as the law requires.

 

Well, it's over. Certiorari has been denied. The 10 "Langbord" $20's are United States Government property forevermore.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/041717zor_09m1.pdf

Smack dab middle of page 3.

 

You do know that both Smithsonian pieces are on public display right now, right?

 

Not sure I understand this point. Why not retain them as a "clear and present" "don't even think about it" statement regarding any more of them out there.

If the government feels they simply must melt them, I say throw them in with a special batch of gold for 2033 gold eagles. That way every owner of a 2033 has a piece of 1933 history within it.

 

From the Supreme Court's website:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docketfiles/16-612.htm

Apr 17 2017 Petition DENIED. Justice Gorsuch took no part in the consideration or decision of this petition.

Somewhere, King Farouk is laughing.

 

Looks like the conference last Thursday was an 0-fer. A quick look through the list shows nary a case added to the docket for argument.

 

"He's a Super Farouk, Super Farouk, he's super Farouky, yow."

 

Can't touch that.

 

please, Hammer... don't hurt 'em