OK Alexandrian Fans, What is This?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ken Dorney, Apr 11, 2017.

  1. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    Sometimes we just look at things too long and cant see what really is in front of us. This tetradrachm of Alexandria with Athena reverse. For the life of me I cant find it in any of my books nor online. Anyone have any suggestions?

    1.jpg
     
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  3. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Severus Alexander?
     
  4. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    I was thinking the same.
     
  5. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

  6. Aethelred

    Aethelred The Old Dead King

    My first thought was Elagabalus, but after looking at the above example and doing a quick search, I now believe Severus Alexander is correct.
     
  7. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    The problem with the darned thing is the crappy legends. Under magnification I can see the inscription ends in WNINOC, which would suggest Caracalla or Elagabalus, but neither have the type nor have obverse inscriptions ending that way. Both should end in CEB or a variation. Also, as much as I look at it I cant read the second letter of the date. Again, maybe I'm looking too closely at it.

    My ideas so far is that it may be a mule of Elagabalus and one of the ladies of the period which have the reverse (Annia Faustina, Julia Paula, etc). Maybe the discrepancy of the obverse lettering is an error?
     
  8. Aethelred

    Aethelred The Old Dead King

    One of the problems with post First Century Alexandrian coins is that they seem to be struck on too small planchets making them hard to ID, especially when yo get to the Third Century.
     
  9. ancientone

    ancientone Well-Known Member

    Maybe a youthful Commodus or Aurelius.
     
  10. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Sorry, I am in Indiana away from books on a wifi connection that is so slow I can't search much. The face is either Elagabalus or Alexander, I think, but definitely not Caracalla or earlier. I do not read the legend with any certainty so can be of no help without books. The fabric could be as late as Gordian III so I'd suggest looking at who had the type in Emmett and go from there.
     
  11. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Interesting :)

    My first thought was Elagabalus.

    When I get home from work I'll give it a thorough look and check books.
     
  12. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    Playing Devils Advocate, here are the men who issued the type:

    Elagabalus
    Severus Alexander
    Maximinus
    Gordian III
    Philip I & II

    Again, based on the inscription I would assume it has to be Elagabalus, but the exact type is not listed.
     
  13. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    Emmett2914 is my best guess so far.
     
  14. Brian Bucklan

    Brian Bucklan Well-Known Member

    I'm certainly no expert but I've seen this reverse for Commodus (which actually fits the bit of obverse legend you can make out) but it was not a Tetradrachm, it was a Diobol. I just did a quick check on CNG and there is a diobol of Commodus that was pretty much the same size and weight as his Tetradrachm. What size is this coin?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
  15. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I agree with Doug: definitely not Caracalla or earlier (based on portrait, metal, flan, general appearance). The portrait could fit with Elagabalus or with Severus Alexander. I think I see ...ωNI... on the obverse, so would make it Elagabalus.

    What about Emmett 2914 (Elagabalus/Athena bust right) do you feel is different from your coin?

    The obverse legend could fit: AKAICAPMAAVPANTωNINOCEVCEB , and the ωNI on your coin is located in the correct position. There is room for the NOC after that (before the right lower bust blocks the space), and the EVCEB would be off flan.

    From what I see in archives, the "EVCEB" is sometimes in much smaller "font" located directly under the bust, very separate from the rest of the legend. In some coins I think it is missing altogether, although Emmett doesn't list this possibility (but he has a variety book coming out at some point in time which will incorporate such things).

    The year is difficult to read as well. At a quick glance I thought L Γ (year 3). Second glance was more puzzling because of the extra blob of metal at the edge, but it's hard to tell in the photograph. I still think it is probably year 3. Emmett shows this Elagabalus/Athena bust right tetradrachm was issued in years 3 (R3) and 5 (R1). Based on the images, I think you could make a case for either of those years. Does the date look more clear in hand?

    CT-Dorney-ElagabalusTet.jpg
     
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  16. Edessa

    Edessa Well-Known Member

    AlexTetraImit.jpg I believe TIF is correct, but just to complicate the discussion, barbaric imitations of Alexandria Tetradrachms are not unknown...
     
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  17. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Hmm. I believe I should seek out a couple of those barbaric imitations :)
     
  18. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    Now that I've looked at it more, I am certain it is Emmett2914, Milne2832, LE or Year 5. I think what through me for a loop was that the inscription likely continues under the bust but with the compact flan the letters are missing. Add to that I have not seen any for sale and none appear anywhere in the sales databases that I could see. Thanks to everyone who contributed!
     
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  19. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    pa1770bb0254.jpg

    While not the same die, this is another Elagabalus LE obverse showing the lettering layout.
     
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