Green spots

After some thread snooping I've come to learn some about verdigris (and look forward to seeing the final results of @SuperDave 's Verdi-care run). I don't want to deal with the stuff at all. I believe that if a coin is yours and you choose to clean it so be it. However if you choose to sell/trade it the right thing to do is inform the potential purchaser/trader of what you've done and what you've used. All said i have a couple questions-

1 Is ANY use of Verdi-care considered a "cleaning"? I.e. if you have a spotless/verdi-free and pit-less coin and your intent is to pretreat the coin before storing it. Or is this overkill?

2 Is the use of dessicants alone sufficient precaution to avoid the reaction leading to verdigris? I have a fire safe rated for submersion and keep a large dessicant pack in there for good measure.

 

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Dessicants only deal with moisture in the air, do you have any paper stored in the safe with the coins? If so , are you very certain the paper wasn't made with sulfur for bleaching the wood fibers? The dessicant packs must be monitored and rejuvenated when saturated. Leave some scrubbed bright ( with wire brush or scrubber) modern post 1982 cents from change open in the safe. The 100% copper shell will react before most of your numismatic coins will. If they start to show darker surfaces, they are exposed to and reacting with undesired gases from somewhere, so scrub them again and put them back on the job. Or you can use expensive coin products which do the same thing.

I think Verdicare and its predecessor Verdi-gone are very effective when caught early. I have a couple of threads from several years ago with experiments also. Once the damage has reached a certain progression, nothing can return the damaged metal. Jim

 

Thank you @desertgem ill go back and search for them. I'm not sure...some important documents but before I buy a separate safe I'll do your test with the modern cents. Looking at some coins online sparked my thread search and the only key words I had at the time were green spots. I found a couple nice coins no one was touching at a great price (or so I thought) and noticed a couple little green spots on them. I may grab one with minimal verdi and give the verdi-care/gone a shot. What's the difference between the two? The rest of the coins are in great shape with little wear so I'm saddened to see them sit there in auction homeless.

 

The verdicare is the current solution
http://www.wizardcoinsupply.com/products/verdi-care.html

But many other suppliers also have the product. The inventor of the solution is Bad Thad here on CT.

 

I didn't know that! Cool.

 

Thank you for the info. And that's really cool. There's definitely a knowledgeable pool of collectors to learn from in here. Glad I found it!

I feel that if Verdicare's use is acceptable by enthusiasts it's not a bad thing to have around the house. At this point I feel confident that I can differentiate between toning and verdigris, but what other debris or reactions are common enough to be aware of?

 

So if one were to try each carefully until the issue was resolved, or found that the issue cannot be, would you put them in that sequential order?
And by "coin dip" do you mean using a cleaner like jewel luster?

 

For anyone who would like to see a proper control experiment with Verdi-gone visit this thread from @desertgem
It gave me a lot of insight into the issue and treatment of verdigris, along with use of distilled water and acetone.

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/experiment-with-verdigone-tm-on-copper-cents.47318/

Thanks again @desertgem !

 

@GDJMSP Got it. I understood that Verdi-care has one specific purpose I was just trying to create a trial and error hierarchy. I think I'll stay always from dips for now. Picking up chemistry along with coin collecting isn't my goal, nor is risking melting a nice piece when I could have dealt with it as is (after the first 3 steps). Thank you for the clarification.

 

My 2 cents.
Regarding the VERDI-CARE claims to apply protection to you coins (in italics below):


For Protection VERDI-CARE™ utilizes a 2-stage system surface. Closest to the surface, the ReAcT2™ ingredient forms a semi-permanent bond with metal. This layer provides heavy-duty, advanced corrosion protection and is only molecules thick. It is completely invisible and will last virtually forever. The second (upper) layer is an advanced, water-soluble, surface-conditioning, polymeric layer that will repel atmospheric contaminants, enhance luster and improve, not strip, the patina.


Could be a good plan if you intend to bury your coins in the ground. The Romans should have had it. … I think Folks are needlessly paranoid about their coins corroding. I have had bright copper, oxidized copper, silver, copper-nickel coins, Roman copper in unsealed SAFLIPS (Mylar) stored in Whitman plastic 2x2 boxes for 30 years now. No other precautions (for example no moisture absorbing packets). Nothing has happened to them. I believe the same would hold for the (Mylar lined) cardboard 2x2 staple type holders.


I cringe when I hear recommendations to use wax to protect coins, like is all too often done with roman and other old coppers, giving them that unnatural shine. Does VERDE-CARE put a shine on your coins?


Who knows how VERDI-CARE will look like in 30 years. How long have they tested it?

 

It would be interesting if desertgem still has the coins from that experiment easily identifiable. -a la Jimski's question above

 

About a month ago, I had an average Kennedy Half Dollar with a big wad of mint colored gum hardened to the surface. After repeated soakings in Acetone for several days, the gum dissolved/floated off. The coin had a greenish blotch on it from the gum. I'm wondering if the die from the gum mixed with saliva, etched itself into the coin leaving the green stain.

 

Consider it a "quibble", but if anything, xylene is a cooler (less polar) chemical, but all that means is that it will easily dissolve non-polar residues.

 

Exactly, just being picky. Acetone is more available and is often the go-to solvent for cleaning organic residues. A few years back, a student had dabbed some WhiteOut on a lab bench and, of course I tried to clean it off with acetone...no effect. A small dab of toluene (more common in most labs than xylene) and it was gone in a flash.

 

To remove verdigris (also tape residue, oil) there is a commercial solvent called Koinsolve. It's from the same folks that make SAFLIP. It's a solvent, and won't leave anything behind, unlike Verdicare which coats your coin. Leave them coins natural folks.