Does CAC Make a Difference?

Kanga, do you have a photo of the coin?

 

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Yes. Based upon what is best described as "conservative TPG standards," which will likely fall a bit short of strict ANA. CAC's thing is to weed out the outliers.

 

829 belongs to @ToughCOINS. We should not forget he might want to do a little business along with hosting all of us.

 

Well I have a few bucks to give him lol.....after all he may want to eat at Tio ' s again....., He truly enjoyed it last time.

 

That's a tough variety and a condition rarity. I'd expect to pay a significant premium for an XF. Post up some photos.

Also, if you want to meet up, I'll be at Whitman on Friday and Saturday, pretty much all day. Are you a JRCS member? The club meeting is at 4PM on Friday.

 

My opinion of the coin is that it's nice and in the grade range that I prefer.
I just saw it as being graded slightly higher than what I thought it should be.
Let's see if I can copy/paste the images I received.
...
I think I've got them:

 

The obverse is a solid 30 and the reverse is a nice 35. A VF35 is a generous but not completely unreasonable grade, though I would say it's really a high end VF30. A nice example and a condition rarity.

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Thanks for your opinion.
It's highly likely that I will buy it then tromp over to PCGS and submit it (and one other) for variety attribution.

 

If we posit that you're entirely correct regarding strict technical merit - and your expertise with these is well established - it's very likely that sheer eye appeal nudged it to 35 instead of 30. A lovely original Circulation Cameo, just a pleasure to look at.

 

Agree completely. For wear alone, the grade is generous, but for overall eye appeal (especially the mark free fields) the assigned grade is fully appropriate.

 

I will be attending tomorrow morning. I would like to meet all of you and have a decent meal before heading back to NY ...is the full name of Tio's Tio Pepe?

 

In practice, most CAC coins with a gold sticker (what few there are) look at least a full grade better than the assigned grade. Most, though not all, appear on early slabs from the 1980s or early 1990s.

As for "slightly higher premium" that is not the case by any stretch. For some coins there is no premium at all, especially if it is a common date in the circulated grades. At the higher grades, --particularity for coins at superb gem and higher grades and with a + designation, the premium for a CAC sticker can be many times the value of the coin in the same grade without the CAC sticker. For the very best material, this can translate into many tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars more realized at auction.

The problem with CAC stickers for the collector of a registry set, is that if some of the coins have stickers while the majority do not, the assumption is all of the coins in the set have been seen by CAC and that those lacking a sticker are of questionable quality for the assigned grade. Unless all of the coins are consistently undergraded in the set, it might make more sense to sell "as is" rather than have only a few with CAC stickers disparaging the majority of the coins without.

This is especially important for any collector with a finest known registry set that includes highly desirable pedigrees. For instance, if all of the coins are already housed in Pouge holders, it would be insulting to add a CAC sticker to the holder, as the assigned grade is almost trivial as the result of the provenance to begin with.

 

Yes I agree, it got the bump due to the eye appeal. The circulation cameo is lovely.

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On a coin such as this (circulated), a CAC sticker is nothing but hype. (IMHO)

 

I went to the ANA Summer Seminars about 4-5 years ago.
I took both Grading 1 and Grading 2.
I found that I was a technical grader; I kept coming up low compared to the ANA grades and that of most of the other students.
It's a habit that I don't seem to be able to break.

 

Here is the only VF35 Browning 5 listed in PCGS CoinFacts.

 

That CoinFacts example is definitely an XF40 though. This is one of the reasons I don't trust PCGS with grading this series and always cross any I get in PCGS slabs to NGC.

PCGS' grading is all over the place on this series. Many of the varieties have shattered or severely worn dies and there were 3 distinct reverse hubs used that produced eagles that had very different wear patterns. PCGS has not demonstrated an understanding of how these factors impact grading for this series, but NGC has. For example, there are common varieties in this series that look like a VF when they are actually AU, so an understanding of this series is important to have to grade accurately. I've seen PCGS under/overgrade this series by 20 points. It's a real head scratcher. NGC is exponentially more consistent and knowledgeable for this series.

Let's look at the obverse on the CoinFacts example. You'll note that most of the stars on the left are significantly weaker than on the right. That is a trait of this variety and due to the rotation of the dies (the stars end up opposite letters/arrowheads that cause the weakness). The stars on the right that should be well-struck have a level of detail here that you won't generally see in a VF. Also the level of detail present in the major hair curls (above the ear, to the right of the Y, and to the right of the clasp) all indicate an XF, as does the level of detail on the drapery at the bust. The cheek, brow, and upper cap, however, are on the flat side for XF, but nothing that would bring the grade below an XF40.

As for the reverse, weakness above the denomination on the right claw and arrows/stem is common for 1837 in general, and not indicative of the level of wear. Instead you can see the higher level of detail in the left claw, eagle's head, neck, and the high points in the wings. All point to XF40.

Overall, this isn't the strongest XF40, but it's also not low enough in quality to be on the line with VF35.

 

I would bet eye appeal kept that at 35