I am considering purchasing an unsold lot from an Italian auction. I really know very little about the numismatic auction world; it seems to be from a reputable auction house--one handled by the Dea Moneta online consortium of auction houses. The seller indicates worldwide shipping. However, I have heard that purchasing coins from Italy is problematic, perhaps because of customs difficulties or postal headaches. Are my concerns justified? Is purchasing from Italy any more hazardous than purchasing from any other western European country? What should I know before making this possible purchase?
The Italian auction houses typically are able to obtain valid export papers from the Italian authorities, so you'll get your coins eventually without hassle. It's a slow bureaucratic process though, so expect to wait a while; in my experience, six weeks or so. I think the postal issues mostly pertain to coins entering Italy, not leaving it, but others may have different thoughts on this.
You just might have a problem with ancients due to the way 'cultural property' laws are spreading in Europe, but I am sure the auction house would know all the rules. Pretty well anything else should be fine unless you are talking thousands of dollars. Inbound US customs can be slow to clear but you should not be subject to any taxes unless thousands are involved. The thing about Italy is sending stuff there, although the reputation for lost mail has always been exagerated and things do seem to have got better lately if the volume of complaints about problems on the ebay boards is any indication. I would be reasonably confident with such a transaction, especially if the amount involved was less than my pain threshold. Most coins would not be subject to any export restrictions or permits. Only just noticed this is in the Ancients forum, so forget what I said about most coins, but the auction house should know what they are doing
Yes. Thanks for your response. I have a coin purchased from Numismatica Prados in Spain still sitting in customs in New York. It's been there since mid-February. Looks like this kind of thing is a (new?) normal.
I have a theory that all inbound stuff is left in a big shed in the middle of a field to see if it explodes. The system went to hell in a handbasket after the toner cartrige bomb scare when more stringent search and inspection was instituted. As usual, thousands of man hours have been spent finding nothing. The troublemakers do not need to succeed to cause widespread problems, you can rely on the over-reaction of the authorities to do that.
Hi, I just had this problem! First time with it after having many auctions won and sent from Italy through catawiki. Although the coins weren't ancient, the two auctions I won were both sent via TNT and Italian customs denied them and returned them to sender even after both I and the shipper had sent the paper work in. No one really knows whats changed but these were modern Italian and San Marino mint sets and i've received them before through both TNT and Italian post. TNT is frustrating to begin with but this was another level of frustration, especially since no one could give any answers.
I've had good luck buying ancients from Italian auctions. No hassles. My last order arrived in 6 days, standard shipping. It was too fast. I hadn't yet prepared my wife for the purchase. Several months ago I purchased a coin that looked fine to me, but NGC said it had tooling. The auction house was more than helpful, didn't argue about the authenticity of the coin and refunded me promptly. It was a thousand dollar coin. They immediately gave me their DHL account, instructions on how to complete the DHL paperwork and had DHL come to my house to ship the package. I had the full refund in a week, and they kept me posted in the meantime. I've also never had any Italian or US government holds on these purchases. Too bad, I have relatives that live in Rome and work for the State Department. I was dying to get to use their clout with the Italian officials, but, no such 'luck'.
I've actually experienced less time with Italy than Germany. Italy about two weeks, though the (Greek) coins I'm purchasing are usually under $100 or thereabouts, so maybe things are different with higher-end stuff.
Interesting. Did it seem like the ones shipped from Italy had export documents? For inexpensive coins I suppose an auction house might just put 'em in the mail and hope for the best. (Just speculation; I'm not aware of that happening since the current regulations were put in place.) And, silly question, but are you absolutely certain the auction house was Italian, as opposed to one based in San Marino? (O/t: What is the adjectival form of San Marino I wonder? San Marinian?) A couple of significant firms are headquartered in San Marino precisely to avoid the Italian documentation rules. Probably you and most CT members understand the distinction perfectly well, but I bet someone is reading this and scratching their head.
All definitely Italian (earlier ACR lots, and several from Tintinna). The receipts from Tintinna always have a registration number indicating it went through the authorities. The ACR lots I've won in the past had photocopies of the official documentation which they presumably got before the auctions, because I remember receiving most in under two weeks (via DHL).
No documents, ever on Italy purchases. The Netherlands refused to allow a coin I purchased out of the country. Britain held one of the coins I sold for 7 weeks, then let it pass. One that I purchased in Britain required the dealer to show up to the gov. office with the coin, and it wasn't released for 3 more weeks. I've got one now, stuck in Switzerland since February 2. France wouldn't release an incoming coin and customs wouldn't inform anyone that they had it. It took a personal visit to the customs house to get the coin. So, Italy is on my easy list, and yes, the coin was post marked Rome and the address that I had DHL send it to was in Rome. Too bad, visiting San Marino would be no hardship!
I think the key word when buying from a foreign company is patience. I have had good luck from Italy in the past several months. I did have a long wait a couple of years ago when the local export person retired and that position was vacant -> no one to do the paper work -> no shipment.
Crazily enough I have never had problems getting coins from the Italian peninsula, not specifically Italy itself but more like San Marino, Vatican City and the Order of Malta. I like saving the postage stamps from SM and VC for the cub scouts. Order of Malta hasn't done postage stamps in awhile, and all posts coming from there go through the Italian PO.
True confessions: I had no idea that San Marino was a sovereign state until this thread. I had to look it up.
It is likely the oldest continuously existing country in the world. Even Abraham Lincoln praised their democracy in an 1862 letter.
