Sacagawea Dollar/ Completing Sets

Hello Group!!! I just recently got back into collectting after falling for the stupid 1929 Fake $5 Indian Gold coin that National Collectors Mint has on the TV every nano second. Oh well $19.95 plus S&H and learned my lesson and here I am. The thing that I wanted to start doing before I started getting into the vintage old coins was to Jump-Start collectting some of the modern stuff as well. I wanted to complete a set per say. Ike Dollars. SBA's, and Sacagawea, 50 States. Right now I am working on getting the Sacagawea's near completion but am blown away with the costs of the proofs. $55-70 for the 2001S. Why is the Red Book so conservative on it's values? Is this just the Ebay craze and the "Coin Vault" that harp on the "scarcity" of these rare and valuable gems? Honestly, can a 2001-S not be had for $35? 2002-S for 25?
My other question on completing some of these sets is: Is a set only considered complete for example with Susan B's if one has every type possible? Like the '81S type l (rounded S) and also '81S type ll (clear S) The 1979P had a "narrow rim" and a more valuable "wide Rim" Is it important to have all minted examples? Thank everyone for their time.

 

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Welcome to the forum justminted. You sure have a lot of questions! (Just kidding )

Actually, pretty low tuition for such an advanced lesson.

In a volatile coin market like we are presently "enjoying", an annual print publication like the Red Book is out of date by the time it gets to the bookstores. Use it to determine which coins are worth substantially more than others, but absolutely not as a price guide. The various weekly/monthly publications are somewhat pricey, but they are the only game in town.

There is no "right" or "wrong" way to collect, or to define the set you want to assemble. If you won't be happy unless you have every available variation, then you need to be very inclusive in your purchases. But if you want just one example of a Susan B, another of a Sac, etc., then put together a type set. In other words the answer to "should I collect this, or that?", is a resounding yes!

 

Reason for the high prices of 2001 proofs, are that the sets cost so much. The 2001 Proof set runs 95 to 160 dollars. The 2002 Proof set runs 37 to 65 dollars. In order to sell Sac proofs or any other single coin, you must buy the sets. Now some of the coins sell much better than others, so any dealer will have to make up his set price in a handful of coins.
Answer number two. All depends on you. Many albums are sold without the varieties, making it easy to complete a set of coins easily. Short sets, type sets, and just about anything else you like. A collection is a reflection of the individual. Don't make your collection the pride of someone else. Collect what you like, for your reasons.

 

Well said.

 

So a Sacagawea Golden Daoller 2001-S Proof cannot be had for $35?
A 2002-S Proof for $25?
The Red book is that Off?

 

Those Proof sets cost that much in their respective years? Are they that rare? It seems that this modern coinage is flat overpriced in comparison to vintage stuff like the Barber Series, Seated Liberty, etc.

 

I would definitely agree there.

 

Rare? Not really. It is simple supply and demand. Millions collecting Statehood Quarters and Proof Sets, and thousands collecting older series.

 

Overhypeness

Fair enough. Then if the Red Book is that off on this modern coinage then credit Ebay and the likes of Coin Vault etc etc to overhype this stuff as if there was just a few of these coins minted. C'mon the 2001 Buffalo Commerative Proof going for $135 and beyond. The guys on Coin Vault leave you with the impression Jed Clamppit must of felt when he realized that bubbling crude was acutally Oil and made him a millionaire. I understand the process of buying the Proof sets and breaking them up that merit a significant increase in value. It's just amazing that a Sac 2001-S can go for that much and the poor little 1861 Indian Head Penny receives a Red Book value of just $18 in "good condition".

 

First you should NEVER use the Redbook for a price guide. Second, NEVER use TV for a price gudie either.
third, never compare different coins in relation to value. All series are valued mainly on collector demand. Simple as that. Most of the patterns and early Type material have very tiny mintages and are quite rare, yet do not bring the money in relation to that circumstance.
There are some coins that collectors want, and the price rises because of it. A smart collector will look past the numbers, collect the best that their budget allows, and will only collect what appeals to them. Do not use price guides as a panacea. There only purpose is a starting point.
When you find the coin that is right for you, pay what it is worth to you. Don't worry about what the next person will pay for it.

 

It's probably not possible for any coin to truly be overpriced or underpriced. They can have artificially high or low demand because of prevailing attitudes of collectors. The '09-S vdb for instance was saved in massive quantities in high grade and has always enjoyed substantial demand. It's a great coin but when you compare it to the SUPPLY of other coins in the same series or to the 1877 indian cent then the price seems dramatically overblown. Finding gems of this coin can be much easier than finding some of the memorial gems and certainly the only thing scarce about the coin in good is that most were pulled out long before they wore to this level. And still it sells for about the same as the far scarcer 1877 indian. The difference in both cases is demand. Many collectors collect the 1909-'58 Lincolns and this coin is a favorite and is well known even among the general public. The extra demand is to some degree perfectly natural since even someone who only collects Lincoln items, first year issues or the like may want an example. In any case though the simple fact is that some coins enjoy far more demand than other coins even within the same series. While the prices of some of the later coins can be surprising because of the increased demand caused by newbies, it should be remembered that for the main part most moderns do sell for small fractions of the price of equally rare popular coins like Morgans or large cents.

 

National colllector you seem to speak as someone who has much experience in coin collecting. I will make no bones about it that I like the hobby as a means to have valuable beautiful rare coins that will or should increase their "Value" in the future. I am sure most in this group would agree that their is a "Pride" feeling knowing that the rare beautiful gem they purchased (or traded for) has a monetary value to it. They could sell it if they wanted to and hopefully get close to if not more than what they paid for it.
If I were just into beauty, then I would hoard mostly Eagles but I want to be able to appreciate the true rareness of vintage coins too. You seem to deminish the importance of the Red Book and that's fine. I have seen the overhyped modern stuff being overhyped on Coin Vault and grabbed my Red Book and seen their stuff is overpriced but their marketing is schtick is slick. I jotted down the coins or sets they were rah rahing and compared to a nearby coin shop whose values were almost spot on to the Red Book. So at least for my purposes, I like having the Red Book around.
As for the Demand for the more modern coins, I think the demand is greater due to The Internet and slick marketing. A proof set of only 3+ years ago skyrockets because this more modern stuff is overhyped. The young collector that starts out on the 50 State Quarters can relate to the coin because it is available through everday circulated coinage. So he/she thinks it's hip to collect the series. He/she gets further into collecting and starts getting new stuff from the US Mint and before you know it, if he/she bought up a few of this and that (2001 Buffalo Commeratives 2001 Proof Sets) then they have quadroopled thier investment in 3 short years. Bizarre to say the least.
So it seems like their is a New way to concentrate on the hobby by giving into to the Modern stuff knowing that their is a captive demand out there.

 

My friend, go back to my original response to your post, and read the part about why the Red Book, valuable as it is, is just not a good current price guide. That's why ND (who is very possibly the most experienced numismatist on this forum, and is well respected by every knowledgeable member of the forum) is telling you not to use it as a price guide.

 

1. Deminish the red book? Not at all. It is a valuable referrence tool. However, all well versed collectors know that it is not a good price guide. The Red Book is published once per year. There is no way to be accurate when prices are changing daily.
2. Modern coins such as Proof sets and Mint sets and the Statequarters while receiving their fair share of marketing are certainly not overhyped. The program brought 100 million new collectors into the hobby. That isn't hype. It is just a simple equation of supply and demand.
3. If your local coin shop is charging Red Book prices, you really need to look elsewhere. 99% of dealers use "The coin dealers newsletter" commonly referred to as the Greysheet.
4. I have a copy of the Redbook myself, and I highly recommend that every collector have a current copy. However, it should only be used for referrence.

 

Geez, I have been getting all sorts of compliments on here lately. Thank you Roy. Your compliment is well appreciated.

 

Giving Props

First off, I will continue on the trend of giving you National Dealer your props. Thank you very much!
Secondly to Satootoko Roy I want you to know that I am appreciattive and that I did not overlook your "origianal " post. Very insightful. Know also that I am respectful and could tell that ND was quite "The Man in the Know"
So you know that it is no mystery that I have been using my Red Book as a pricing guide. Sorry group. What is the best publication to find out what the latest up to the day/week values should be? Do local coins shops stick firmly to their price (even if it is usually consistent with the Red Book) or do they come off a little if you know what the publication says?
And finally in closing here, (not to beat a dead horse)
I used the word "overhypped" in describing the way many Ebayers and TV Coin Programs overglorify the modern coinage as if it was truely the rare stuff. My interpretation only. Don't hit me.

 

Would never hit a collector I save that for investors

For collectors, I recommend using online auction prices as a good baseline. Ebay has a way to check prices realized.
http://search.ebay.com/completed-it...rftogZ1QQsofocusZbsQQsosortpropertyZ1QQsotrZ2
A few (3 or 4) copies of the greysheet each year would also be a good tool.
http://www.greysheet.com

Those are the only sources that I recommend. All other guides are based on the highest retail value in the country.

Now believe me, I understand how watching the Coinvault and other numismatic TV can turn your stomache. If you do a quick search on this forum, you will see that my opinion of them is ranked right above pond scum and low tier grading services.

Please don't take my comments personally. Sometimes it is easy to forget that everyone else doesn't spend 60 hours + a week buying and selling coins. I do not intend my posts to seem short or rude. Just trying to share a little of the other side of the business with those willing to listen.

 

Thanks for the reference matierial.

 

Just my opinion

For now the price guide for modern coinage is ebay. Like it or not. Like many have said supply and demand is setting the trends and prices on ebay for most modern coinage. At least since 1999.

BWJR