NGC Submission is Back, Guess the fake

I recently sent in 16 world coins to NGC for grading. I have gotten pretty good over the years at guessing the letter grade but admit that I am terrible at identifying problem coins unless it is pretty obvious.

This submission had it's share of "cleaned" coins that I missed but one came back body-bagged as "NOT GENUINE". I am pretty shocked. Of course they don't give you a lot of details but, I am assuming it is a contemporary counterfeit.

NGC does their Photo Vision pictures prior to grading so I still got high quality images of all of them.

Below are 4 of the coins from the submission. If you want, take a guess at which one you think came back as the fake. I'll let this cook all weekend and reveal which one it is Sunday night.

1) 1772 Frankfurt Thaler D-2226


2) 1606 Mansfeld Thaler D-6977


3) ca.1652 Brunswick-Wolfenbuttel Thaler D-6362A


4) 1612 Saxe-Gotha Thaler D7429

 

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The fake is #3

 

That’s a bummer, Chris. I’m throwing a guess on the 1772 piece. That one is giving me the most “off” vibes.

 

I think 3 too.

 

#4 - the guy on the left has the same expression I'd have if I were facing someone with four eyes...

 

That's a bummer! Hope you can get your money back.
I'm going to guess the fake is #4.

 

Yeah.... I am in the #3 camp too.

 

#3

 

4. Don’t know any of the originals or diagnostics but #4 seems to have the color of some other fakes that I have of similar items.

 

I would add that all of those look good enough to be legit so don’t beat yourself up too much.

 

With much difficulty, I am refraining from making any comments. Because if I do I'm sure it will give away the answer.

 

#2 I am suspicious of the too round flan/too well centered appearance for a hammer struck coin.

 

I am thinking either #3 or #4 is the fake; I will go with #3 because that is the first one that seemed "off" to me

 

I voted #4. As noted for another, looks too good and felt “off”.

 

I am with Jgenn, #2 the flan looks too good.

 

I may be busy later so will go ahead and post the results. @jgenn and @Pickin and Grinin are the only 2 that guessed what NGC said. I probably shouldn't have posted #4. It is a cleaned coin, which I knew already, but the photo doesn't look as nice as the coin does. Of the 4, NGC missed the mark on the appearance of that one.

I have been looking up other examples of this coin and I am not convinced NGC got it right. Not arguing, just my opinion.

After seeing @jgenn comment, I do agree that it is remarkably round for a hammered coin. When you compare it to other sales, to my eyes, it is very similar in appearance.

Here is my coin.


I have been looking at a number of sold items in auction archives. Here is an example sold by Leipziger Münzhandlung und Auktion Heidrun Höhn in 2013



and Fritz Rudolf Künker in 2004



I think they are all visually similar. The coins weight and diameter are spot on. Maybe there is some other marker for being a counterfeit.

Thank you for all the comments and votes.

 

So the creepy extra eyes on #4 are just really bad strike doubling? I certainly see signs of it elsewhere on the devices, but yipe...

 

The two other examples you posted are a better match to each other then your #2 coin, Chris.