1/ demand is 1000X higher then supply. Too MANY collectors vs avaliable material. 2/ Fees charged by auction houses. In the 1980s fees were 5% on average, today 22-25% 3/ precious metal prices 4/ High demand esp. from China/ India/ Japan 5/ Cultural Property and all that nonsense 6/ Prices are bonkers, hammer results keep breaking records, again demand exceeds supply. 7/ Since coins are worlds best investment, speculators are ruining it for collectors. Many collect just for making fast buck. 8/ Modern coins are bland, awfull, thus everyone wants the classical material 670BC -1969. The "colored superman kitch doesn't arouse my interest or others. 9/ The VAT and other customs fees are a killer. 10/ Average collectors like me and most others cannot compete with the deep pocketed "elite" What are your thoughts?
Everybody wants that coin with proof that it is better than yours. Collecting has become too competitive. I'm satisfied with uniform eye appeal across a set or series.
I think 3rd party grading has been bad for hobby. People go gaga over a coin graded MS-63 Ch. UNC. Yet, that same coin would end up in EU/ UK/ Swiss auction raw graded Vorz./ Stempelglanz (EF-MS) and hammer for much less $$$. The US slabbers are very liberal in grading, I have seen a CNG graded "EF" coin, reappear in Heritage event, now graded MS-65! And of course hammer for double. So, overgrading can be listed too
I've seen the same arguments from the sports card niche, and I'm just not convinced. People do get a buzz from seeing their collections rise in value, and third-party graders (TPGs) are bound to spring up as hobbies become popular. For example, I have heard that greed has destroyed the baseball card hobby, but I remember how popular the Beckett price guide magazine was back in the late '80s and early '90s. People turn these hobbies into purity tests when they always were largely about value. This very same debate springs up in many hobbies. * Actually, the sports card hobby has issues with trimming and allegations of shill bidding, so actual law-breaking is a threat in any hobby.
I keep hearing that with most people not wanting cash, that the hobby would become obsolete. I for one love getting paid in cash, also use cash 100%. Never leave the house without a couple of hundreds in my pocket. I think, its the opposite, people collect fossils, well they went extinct millions of years ago. People are not excited about modern cars, but will pay 900K for a 67 L-68 corvette, 9M for a L-88 67 vette, 700K for a 58 like mine. People love collecting, esp. beautifull historical artifacts. In militaria I saw on youtube, collectors go gaga for only German WW2 memorabilia, from the beautifull designed uniforms, decorations, weapons. Coinage that everybody wants is the early electrum, gold aurei, gold, silver in pristine quality. Collectors love owning pieces of history. Saying goes...."he who has the most toys won" They that do not have hobbies loose out.
3rd party grading is bad for the hobby. Look at what grading did to sports card collectibles. It's not a hobby for kids anymore, it is a business for adult geeks. That's no fun.
1/4/6) You're saying demand is increasing. Isn't that a good thing? Increased demand means prices go up. I collect because I enjoy it, but it is an investment. No way would I invest so much money into it if I thought when I'd sell I'd get the same or less. 2) Highly annoying as it looks like greed, but not really a threat to our hobby. Buyers deduct the BP from their bid and sellers get a higher percentage of hammer. It's a wash. 3) Yes, hurting the hobby. I started in the 80's and I used to see kids putting together sets of Walker 50c and they'd pay $4-$5 each. Morgan/Peace $1 were $7-$9 each. A kid on an allowance was able to get a bunch of cool coins including new US Mint products. Today there is $25 in silver in the 50c, $50 in the $1, and a proof Silver Eagle from the mint will cost you a kidney. Even super common Roosevelt 10c have $5 in silver in them. No way a kid can enter the hobby and get a bunch of cool coins on a typical allowance. 5) Basically meaningless. My experience with "cultural property" in EU countries is that the item may not be exported from one country, but has free ability to be moved to another EU country that doesn't have the restriction. I had one dealer literally tell me that he couldn't send me the item from his country as it was restricted, but not to worry as he goes next door (another country) once a month to mail from there. 7) This isn't 1989 Wall Street. I doubt there are a lot of speculators pumping this market. 8) I agree moderns are awful, but there is clearly a large segment of the market that likes them. Every mint is producing this garbage, but it clearly sells. 9) It just changes what and where you buy. These fees have always been there. 10) I think everyone feels that was in every hobby. However, we're not competing with the "elites" for most coins. We're not two billionaires going after the 1804 $1. We're competing with people of similar means. I believe the TPG are harming the hobby. While they did a lot of good helping remove counterfeits and problem coins from being sold as genuine and pristine, the fact that now every coin "needs to be in a slab" is infuriating. The vast majority of collectors can't grade. Many (most?) dealers aren't good at grading. The TPG have become greedy with pricing. The TPG don't stand behind their guarantees like they used to. Their quality of graders has clearly worsened over the years. And there are literally millions of modern coins in slabs that never should have been there. Do we really need 25 MILLION Silver Eagles professionally graded?
TPG's on anything less than modern coins is hit and miss. I recently had a coin graded AU details "scratched on obverse" that I certainly never saw and you can only see it in certain light and angles. In the real world it would be a bag mark on a raw coin. Similarly another had a tiny nick on the flank of a horse on a crown sized 38 mm coin and again details "scratched". It took me a while to find the blemish with a loupe. To pay the equivalent of $60 in my currency to have a coin condemned is a waste of three or four months and a waste of of my time and money. It's so obvious that many people collect the label and the plastic on "one upmanship" basis and that it is causing problems. In contrast, I once sold a collection of 18th Century pattern shillings because of unexpected circumstances and the grades I bought at were decimated by the dealers including the outfit I bought most of them from. My choice uncirculated became extremely fine and the drop in value was huge and more than dealers legitimate mark ups. I have no issues with people making profit and if they can buy for 100 and sell for 500 because of their knowledge against my ignorance good luck to them. My issue is manipulating grades when it suits them to do so. In this scenario I believe the TPG's offer consistency but for anything earlier than say 1700 its a lotto. In all of these situations I was grading to preserve provenance and not have the coin elevated or destroyed by someones opinion. I dare say I would have been happy if the coins came back with unrealistic good grades and that has happened but not when it looks as if the grader is going out of their way to find issues. I'll post some of my "details" coins when I have a chance. I have bought some beautiful 17th Century "cleaned" coins at bottom basement prices because of the plastic label. What sensible person considers that a coin dug from the ground more than 400 years ago hasn't been cleaned or the latest idiocy is "brushed" even when it shows toning. Brushed is not a grade, simply a negative descriptor. Fortunately many of my early hammered coins are "brushed" as I wouldn't have bought them in the clods of dirt they came out of the ground in. You cannot put labels for modern coins on early coins and that says a lot about the TPG infatuation with their bread and butter which is modern USA issues. There's a lot of "Emperors New Cloths" in this acceleration of "details" and new grading terms and none of it benefits the collector and I am sure is only there to abrogate the worthless warranties of the TPG companies.
Something I don't like is the disappearance of actual brick and mortar buildings. I see a lot sold on eBay with very few real coin shops around me. I miss the days of digging through piles of coins and picking out what I like in person. I like visiting the few shops in Chicago but miss them when I go home to Maine. I only know of two and both are a good drive out.
