German States (Saxony, Albertinian line): 1564-HB silver thaler of Augustus, Elector of Saxony

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by lordmarcovan, Feb 13, 2026 at 4:36 AM.

  1. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic numismatist Moderator

    German States (Saxony, Albertinian line): 1564-HB silver thaler of Augustus, Elector of Saxony

    NGC XF details (cleaned). Cert. #2183137-001.

    Numista-53745, Davenport-9795.

    Ex-Andy Mirski, at Table 553 at the 2026 FUN convention, Orlando, Florida, 10 January 2026. Purchased raw.

    This handsome large silver thaler was struck under the authority of Augustus, Elector of Saxony, who was one of the rulers of the Albertinian Line under the powerful Habsburg Dynasty. The thaler is the ancestor of the world's subsequent large silver coins, and it is from "thaler" that the word "dollar" had its origins.

    I have long liked this particular type, with the ruler in profile holding a sword over his right shoulder and a mace in his left hand. It is a very martial design. The intricate coats of arms on coins of this era are also interesting.     I liked the eye appeal of this particular example. It has light toning and a slightly doubled strike.

    Before buying it, I examined the edge closely for any traces of old jewelry mounts, as that is an issue with so many old thaler coins, and I was wary of receiving a "details" grade from NGC after submitting it to them at the show. As it came to pass, that wasn't the problem. NGC indeed gave it a "details" grade, but for cleaning rather than mount removal. I was disappointed. It should come as no surprise that a coin more than 460 years old got cleaned once upon a time. What disappointed me was that NGC did not deem this light cleaning to be "market acceptable" and give the coin a straight grade. (I've seen worse in straight-graded holders.) This presented me with a dilemma. I generally avoid "details" graded coins in my collection. But I like this one enough that I'm making an exception for it.

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    Last edited: Feb 13, 2026 at 4:43 AM
    lordmarcovan, Feb 13, 2026 at 4:36 AM
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  3. Chris B

    Chris B Supporter! Supporter

    Indeed. I have found that I am pretty good at knowing a grade that a coin will get but terrible at spotting things like cleaning, tooling, etc. I would have thought yours would straight grade. I don't mind a details grade as long as it is an attractive coin, and your is.
     
    Chris B, Feb 13, 2026 at 6:59 AM
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    Dafydd, Tall Paul and lordmarcovan like this.
  4. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic numismatist Moderator

    Thanks. I rank your opinion very highly on stuff like this.

    It is tempting to crack out and resubmit (maybe to PCGS), but I've already sunk full retail plus slab fees into this one, so further slabbing isn't really cost-effective. Unless I decide I just want to give it another go, and end up "underwater" on it. But there's no guarantee I'd get a straight grade on the second try. So... hmmm.
     
    lordmarcovan, Feb 13, 2026 at 7:06 AM
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  5. Chris B

    Chris B Supporter! Supporter

    You would probably be surprised at the number of coins that I post that are in details holders. It just comes with collecting coins from this era.
     
    Chris B, Feb 13, 2026 at 8:29 AM
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  6. Dafydd

    Dafydd Supporter! Supporter

    I actually go out of my way to bid on details coins at auction because so many people are more obsessed with possessing a grade and lump of plastic than the coin. What person in the right mind at the grading company thinks that a coin that is nearly 500 years old hasn't been cleaned. Beautiful coin @lordmarcovan marred by unrealistic grading opinion.
    This is a typical example of what I chase. This one is graded AU Details cleaned by PCGS. Had it not had the details slur I probably wouldn't have been successful at the auction. I concur with @Chris B that an attractive coin is an attractive coin.
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    I've previously mentioned that I have shipwreck coins graded to preserve provenance and sometimes I get a details cleaned tag on shipwreck coins which is bizarre. I'm 50/50 on grading. I prefer raw coins but can see some merit in slabs for preservation of vulnerable coins or to reassure buyers that high value coins are genuine or at least likely to be. It's not that popular a concept yet in the UK but increasing particularly on liquidation of a collection.
    The coin above is rated as the top of its population at PCGS which I also find a bit weird.
    This one is straight graded by PCGS at AU55 .
    [​IMG]

    I wanted a Briot milled specimen but wouldn't have bid on this one which sold for four times what mine cost. Take a look at the strike weakness on both sides, a straight AU55 bemuses me.
    With ancients and hammered and early milled grading is subjective and probably not as vital as scoring on late coinage where people will pay huge premiums for "the best".
     
    Dafydd, Feb 13, 2026 at 10:05 AM
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