Ancient Coin Collectors Guild

Been with them from the start, and renewed today.

Doug

 

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Valentinian,
Thanks for the alert on a necessary organization. I will heed the call and join.

 

Joined.

 

I recently committed myself never to sell or gift an ancient coin to anyone outside North America, and to buy at least 5-6 ancient coins from Europe every year and import them into the US while we still can. That way if I can get 20 or 30 more ancients into the US before it is banned, that's 20 to 30 more ancients future US and Canadian collectors will be able to enjoy because of me...my little legacy to our hobby for after I die.

 

I support Mr. Sayles efforts with the ACCG. I've also purchased ancient coins from him. He has a nice inventory on VCOINS.

 

Never heard of them before, going to look into them a but further and see what its all about. And whats with all the membership levels?

 

I hope these coin people are not like the NRA. I used to be an NRA member because I occasionally engage in recreational target practice shooting at 50 yards with a scoped target pistol from Ruger, an MK-III, and a Ruger 10/22 rifle with scope at 100 yards (it's relaxation therapy for me.)

I got talked into joining the NRA and it was the most miserable year of my life. After navigating their confusing tier system of membership and enrolling, I started to get weekly fundraiser letters asking for additional money. If an "anti-gun" congressperson so much as sneezed or went to the bathroom, the NRA would send me a letter asking for more money. It got so bad that I wouldn't even open them anymore.

And to make things worse, they sold my information to other parties for money, because immediately after signing up with them the amount of junk mail and telemarketer calls I got went from one in a blue moon to tons of new junk mail and telemarketer calls out of nowhere. I had to change my phone numbers and started to write "Return to Sender." to all junk mail, but it took months for the madness to completely stop. It really sucked the fun out of my recreational hobby.

These coin people are not like that, are they?

 

Not at all. The ACCG has only sent me a single thing in the mail which was a copy of their challenge to one of the import restriction laws when I first joined up. If anything I'd say I get too little info from them as I don't recall getting any actual mail or email on what they're doing. I usually have to check Peter Tompa's(their legal counsel) blog to keep up with them.

 

Is there some easy-to-read online resource that clearly explains the current status of cultural property laws?

Ie, What cannot be legally imported and from what countries? And what proposed laws are currently threatening the hobby, and in what countries?

 

i only saw 2, friend and member.. i just donated some money to'em through paypal and didn't become a member for now.

 

Been a Patron for several years and will continue.

 

There are some documents at http://www.iapn-coins.org/documents/general-public-documents/export-import-guidelines.html and the German guidelines are good.

I haven’t found any collector-focused guidelines for the United States. The ACCG does not want to do what the IAPN did and attempt to explain the rules in simpler language. Coming up with some guidelines might be a useful project, if anyone has the writing skills.

I find the rules complicated. For example, if I want to import a coin minted in Syria I must follow the rules of standard US customs (there should be a form 22 sticker with the country of origin, weight, and category) on the envelope AND the rules at https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2016-08-15/html/2016-19491.htm .

However, as the receiver it is difficult to figure out how to ensure the seller fills out the form properly, especially with 1-off eBay transactions.

Then there are the special rules for Syria. The US government wants evidence the coin left Syria before March 15, 2011. Typically coins from major European dealers now include a piece of paper saying to the best of their knowledge the coin left before the dates of the various US agreements if the coin is from Cyprus, Italy, Greece, Egypt, and Syria. But if you look at the actual rules, the US Customs guideline says "Some major mints for coinage that circulated in Syria in various periods include ... Antioch ...". Antioch is an interesting case, because it was part of ancient but not modern Syria. It's now Antakya, Turkey. Why are coins from Roman Syria covered under a law restricting coins from Assad’s Syria?

 

I joined.

 

There are patron and life member levels. You'll be in good company if you join. Also, your membersip fees will help fight the elitist, U.S. archaeological lobby whose initiatives threaten to (1) severely curtail our centuries-legal collecting activities, (2) put the financial burden of enforcing anti-looting laws on the U.S. government and taxpayers rather than source countries and (3) put U.S. small business coin dealers at a competetive disadvantage vs. European coin dealers.

Just follow the money people. These archaeologists need excavation permits from source countries. So, of course they support whatever stupidly broad MOU a source country proposes - otherwise the source country won't let them dig! If they don't get dig permits, they can't soak their patrons for money to fund the excavation and their paychecks.

 

Sounds like they are out to destroy small businesses...

 

ACCG doesn't have a big cooperate office to pay for like the NRA. I emailed Mr. Sayles last year and received a return email that said he was on travel and would contact me as soon as he returned. It gave me the impression that they have a rather small command structure and staff.

 

No, small businesses are collateral damage to their initiatives.

 

Bottom line, in your honest opinion, is it worth the $35? Is this something every ancient coin collector should support?

I'm split 50/50 on joining. My problem is that I don't like giving money to organizations I know little about. But I do trust the opinions of a lot of you here whom I've gotten to know really well through this board. So give me your take. You can persuade me either way.

 

Funny thing is that some US museums are selling parts of their collection to the public, while at the same time advocating the government seize those coins/ancient art. They are definitely not advocating refunds though.

It still remains to be seen how the Trump administration reacts to this. We all know the Obama administration was no friend to ancient collectors.

 

I think for $35 you should chance it Sallent. That's what - a pizza? A bottle of Jim Beam, some Cokes, and ice?