A variety of old holder golds arrived today!

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by jwitten, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Because I think it's PVC residue. And the TPGs will not slab a coin that has PVC residue on it. Or at least they sure didn't use to. Today, apparently they will.
     
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  3. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    Isn't the reason that they won't because the PVC will eat at the coin eventually downgrading the coin?
     
  4. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    To a large degree, yes.
     
  5. jwitten

    jwitten Well-Known Member

    I don't think it is that either.
     
  6. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    It is possible that it developed (became visible) post certification, isn't it?
     
  7. jwitten

    jwitten Well-Known Member

    Nah, I've gotten gold graded while it still had dirt/green in the devices. Always graded ok.
     
  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Gold sometimes develops verdigris, and yes they will slab coins with verdigris on them. But when they do, there is never very much of it, just a little here and there. That coin has green all over the place - both sides. So the chances of it it being verdigris are pretty much nil. Therefore the green must be something else, and the most likely candidate is PVC residue. And neither NGC nor PCGS will slab coins with PVC residue on them - or as I said at least they never used to.



    No Grades
    PCGS will not grade and encapsulate any coins with the following problems:

    82 Filed Rims Rim(s) and/or edge is filed.

    83 Peeling Lamination Potential for sealing damage.

    84 Holed and/or Plugged Any filled or non-filled hole.

    86 No Opinion – our experts are unable to determine a coin’s authenticity –
    fee not refunded

    87 Not Eligible For Service Selected – the coin is too valuable for the
    chosen service level – fee refunded

    90 Questionable Authenticity – the coin is most likely a counterfeit.

    91|N-1 Questionable/Artificial Toning (or Questionable Color for copper)

    92|N-2 Cleaned – surface damage due to a harsh, abrasive cleaning

    93|N-3 Planchet Flaw - Metal impurity or defect in the planchet –
    depends on severity

    94|N-4 Altered Surface - Whizzed, harsh cleaning, thumbed over
    (using a pasty substance to cover defects or alter the appearance).

    95|N-5 Scratch - depends on the severity of the scratch. Rim dent.

    96|N-6 No Service – coins we do not certify (i.e. medals, some privately
    made issues, etc.) or cannot certify (i.e. over-sized coins)

    97|N-7 Environmental Damage – i.e. corrosion, coating (lacquer),
    excessively heavy toning, etc.

    98|N-8 Damage – deliberate surface damage, i.e. graffiti, spot(s) removed,
    etc. – depends on severity

    99|N-9 PVC (Poly-Vinyl-Chloride) – a plasticizer used to produce vinyl that
    will leach out of the holder and onto the coin, eventually damaging the
    surfaces.


    No Grade Description
    90 Not Genuine
    91 Artificial Color
    92 Cleaning
    93 Planchet Flaw
    94 Altered Surfaces
    95 Scratch / Rim Dent
    96 Refund - No Service
    97 Environmental Damage
    98 Damage
    99 PVC
     
  9. jwitten

    jwitten Well-Known Member

    From looking at pictures of pvc damage, it appears to be more of a green haze, not green debris stuck in crevices. This is why I don't think it is that.
     
  10. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    It almost looks like Play Doh... I've never seen anything like this on a coin. What do you think it is?
     
  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    PVC residue has many different looks and many different colors, the variables are almost limitless. It can be clear, almost invisble; it can be milky looking; any shade of green, brown, and even white just to name a few. And it can be of several different textures ranging from slimy even to the touch, dried and hard or even flaky. It all depends on how much of it got onto the coin and how long it has been there.

    This particular coin has been cleaned, not harshly cleaned - cleaned, in an effort to remove the PVC residue. Unfortunately they didn't get it all and what you see is what remains.

    Now, let's say you're right, let's say it's not PVC residue. The fact remains that it IS something, it is a foreign material on the coin - environmental contamination of one kind or another. That much cannot be denied. And since it is there, the coin cannot be graded.
     
  12. Travlntiques

    Travlntiques Well-Known Member

    So that's why the seller of the 1878-S in ANA-PNG slab didn't take my offer! He had a few other fairly rare dates....but pricier.
     
  13. jwitten

    jwitten Well-Known Member

    More MS graded Indian with dirt... I think the graders disagree with you that they can not be uncirculated (CAC too).
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1925-D-2-50...378506?hash=item2a7bc8b8ca:g:Fj0AAOSw4CFYryib
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1925-D-2-50...266124?hash=item489947d1cc:g:SaIAAOSwdGFYry94
     
  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Uhhhhh - "dirt" is not considered environmental contamination.

    You'll find plenty of slabbed coins that have verdigris on them too, that's not environmental contamination either.
     
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