How can I ID no date SLQs?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Seattlite86, Feb 18, 2017.

  1. Omegaraptor

    Omegaraptor Gobrecht/Longacre Enthusiast

    I've heard mixing two parts vinegar and one part peroxide might work. Just try not to inhale any fumes (it forms peracetic acid).
     
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  3. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    That it does.

    I don't doubt that acid treatment will leave a surface like that on a silver coin. I just doubt that it can etch differentially. I think it'll leave a grainy, flat surface where the date was, still not revealing any additional detail.

    One of these days, I'll run the experiments myself. With equivalent before and after shots. I just found two-plus rolls of dateless SLQs in the bottom of a box, so it's not like I lack experimental subjects.

    (Probably a topic for another thread, but the dateless rolls weigh just about 10% less than a roll of 1964 quarters -- and are about 20% shorter, because the rims are the first part to go. Those coins worked hard over the course of their careers.)
     
  4. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    @-jeffB, it can't. I'm sorry, boys, but give it up, acid doesn't bring up dates on silver.
     
  5. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    I like this way better than the dark stain I usually see on buffalo nickels.
     
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  6. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    The stained ones are usually made when people put a big ol glob of NicaDate on just the date portion and leave it on for way too long.
    When I do it I submerge the entire coin in a vinegar/peroxide solution so that the whole surface exhibits even etching. Looks a bit nicer.
     
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  7. coinzip

    coinzip Well-Known Member

    I can't remember who gave me this, if it's your work please let me know so I can give proper credit.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    That's one of the best reference images I found.

    One corollary: don't ever even try to restore a date on a Type I SLQ. You can tell whether it's a 1916 even if the date AND mint mark area are worn flat. And you can tell whether there are stars beneath the reverse eagle or not even if it's worn almost flat. No excuses: no stars under the eagle, leave it be. :) (Same thing for Buffalo nickels: if you're trying to restore a date on a Type I, you're being dumb.)
     
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  9. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    You might try ferric nitrate, jewelers use it for etching sterling silver. Sterling silver and coin silver are close enough in composition that it might work the same way ferric chloride does on copper nickel. You might have to do some experimentation to fine the right dilution strength for it to bring out the slight differences in the density of the date and non-date areas.
     
  10. Electron John

    Electron John Active Member

    I have never done anything like this but the police CSI guys have methods to bring out filed off VIN plates and firearm serial numbers. I have heard that they use acid etches like Nital (alcohol and nitric acid) to bring out the numbers. But I imagine the etch should be altered depending on the metal in question. I have also heard that photoshop has been used to bring out lost serial numbers as well. Take a detailed photo of the area of interest and then tweak the image to bring out the text.
    Not sure if either method, acid etch or photoshop, would work with a worn down date on a coin or not.
     
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  11. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I have tried using Photoshop (and similar image-manipulation tools), but any remaining date detail is swamped by surface discoloration, uneven lighting, and camera/image noise. For this sort of thing, a human eye, in conjunction with moving the coin under different lighting directions, seems to do better than anything you can drag out of a static image.

    For vehicle badges and firearm stamps, I think acid treatment relies on the same kind of work-hardening that you get in nickel alloys. It apparently doesn't happen to the same extent with silver. I still do want to experiment, though.
     
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  12. BostonCoins

    BostonCoins Well-Known Member

    Though this is a neat "exercise", I guess I'm curious. Does it really matter what dates they are? I don't mean to be the "negative Nancy" on this subject, but I would suspect that for the most part, regardless if you figure any dates out, they are still only going to be worth melt, or the current market value for SLQ culls. I can't imagine SLQ collectors wanting a cull coin that doesn't clearly show the date.

    Now, of course, if you could somehow manage to figure out that you have an extremely rare one, then yes, maybe you'll get a little more than cull price.

    Again, I realize this is just for fun, but I'm wondering if this exercise would really increase the potential values. In a sense, is it worth it beyond the fun of it all?
     
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  13. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    That's the point. If you look at the market for restored-date Buffalos, it's clear that people are still finding 1918/7s and better date/mint combinations among the undated material. And they do get good money, enough to make it worth the effort, even though they're much cheaper than problem-free examples.

    I assume that many of these "better dates" circulated with the rest, without a lot of collectors pulling them out at the time, and lost their dates with the rest. That means your odds of restoring a good date may be better than your odds of finding a dated one in an "unsearched lot" -- the former just means that it circulated enough to lose its date, while the latter means that it's never crossed a collector's hand and gotten pulled.

    If there were a reliable way to restore dates on SLQs, I and many others would certainly give it a try. You won't reduce the value of the dateless SLQ any further, and you might find a (minor) treasure.
     
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  14. Packrat

    Packrat Well-Known Member

    There was a product called NicASilver. Made by same company as NicADate. I used it as a teenager in the 1960's. Limited effectiveness. For me, most useful on three cent silvers and for helping to bring out the mint mark on Mercury dimes.
     
  15. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Yep, you and a couple of other people have mentioned that product in the past.

    Nic-A-Date works, and people are still using it, and we're still seeing restored-date Buffalos in the market. Why no restored-date silver coins on the market?

    My working hypothesis is that silver coins don't let you restore the date with any chemical treatment -- that if you could, the product would be on the market, and people would be using it. If some people remember bringing out some dates with Nic-A-Silver 50 years ago, I suspect it was a matter of removing discoloration or altering the texture on a date that was already there (as a feature with some tiny bit of relief), but not quite visible to the user beforehand. If it didn't really work, that would explain why it's no longer on the market.

    Until we get some experiments with positive results -- or, best of all, come up with an actual bottle of Nic-A-Silver with an ingredient list, or some contents that can be analyzed -- it's going to be hard to bring "silver date restorer" out of mythical status.
     
  16. Gilbert

    Gilbert Part time collector Supporter

    I have never heard of a dateless 1916 SLQ being sold, or being offered for sale. Anyone else?
     
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  17. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    Can I play devil's advocate here?

    What key dates can you find in this dateless series?

    1916, 1921, and 1927-S

    am I missing any?

    The 1916 can be determined without a date, which leaves the 1921 and the 1927-S.

    In cull condition, do they sell for enough premium over melt to even worry about them?
     
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  18. Gilbert

    Gilbert Part time collector Supporter

    1923-S??? :rolleyes:
     
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  19. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    And the overdate as well as the 19-D and 19-S.

    I guess I just never realized how many of this short series are valuable.
     
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  20. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

  21. Gilbert

    Gilbert Part time collector Supporter

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