To clean or not to clean? That is the question...

A few months back I shared a "staff" series victoriatus that I had purchased uncleaned and sent in for cleaning in this thread. Well, I recently managed to score another extremely rare(in this case, even moreso than before) fully anonymous victoriatus and this one uncleaned as well. I discussed the coin with my friend who cleaned the "staff" victoriatus and he's offered to give this one the same treatment and I told him I'd get back to him once I have it in-hand. I've spent the last few days thinking about it and I'm still completely undecided so I'd like to get the opinions of my fellow collectors here: Would you have this coin cleaned or leave it as-is?

To give a bit more context, in its current state I've been fully able to identify the type of course, and even further than that I've matched both the obverse and reverse dies against published examples in the British Museum and Paris and an example sold by NAC so cleaning will not reveal any additional information in that regard. Additionally, the cost of cleaning is not really a concern for me: if I decide to go the "clean" route it'll be done by a third party as I don't trust myself in these matters. I'm mostly trying to weigh the over/under on whether or not the cleaning will reveal a less attractive coin or even in the worst case scenario completely destroy the coin altogether.

The coin in question:


Full ID for the curious: Roman Republic AR Victoriatus(2.75g, 17mm). Anonymous. ca. 211-208 B.C. Uncertain mint. Laureate head of Jupiter right. Border of dots / Victory standing right, crowning trophy with wreath. ROMA in exergue. Line border. Crawford 90/2

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Fantastic Victoriatus! Congratulations on your find. Wow, well done...

I am torn like you as to cleaning. Hold, wait, and give yourself time to think.

 

Congrats, red_spork ... I love that coin-type

Ummm, I happen to have a pretty sweet example as well => Cha-ching!!

 

Silver coins are harder to ruin by cleaning than bronze unless they have extensive horn silver deposits (which look like white mineral deposits or powder).

It did not leave the mint with all that crud on it I say have them clean it with gentle methods and see if it comes off.

John

 

I vote leave as is. How often do you find a silver coin with original hoard patina and dirt? It's very rare, and once you clean it you can't get that back. Cleaned silver coins are a dime a dozen, but a silver coin that's never been cleaned is a rare one indeed.

This makes me sad I still don't have a single Victoriatus.
. I may need to put one in my want list and save my pennies.

 

That's actually one thing I neglected to mention. These victoriati were minted with debased silver: in the 80% or better range in most cases but sometimes a bit less, which sometimes leads to difficulties cleaning. The "staff" victoriatus for instance took 3-4 months of chemical and mechanical cleaning. But I agree with your point about it not leaving the mint that way - it's certainly not a natural part of the base coin itself and in a perfect world where there was no risk I'd definitely prefer "cleaned"

 

I think it's nice already, but yeah, I would consider cleaning it or try and have someone else who can, do so.

 

A tough decision. Personally I would have it cleaned.

 

I still don't know if you should clean it, and I don't care. This post is called "Red_Spork is a bad influence."

I suppose I can always cover a hearing for another attorney to pay for this. Oh well.

So, this here is some fancy military mint during the Second Punic War, and I'm sure my buddy @red_spork will be happy to give me the attribution.

 

I like the version that you have here, and would leave it the way it is. It could have many a scar underneath that Patina.

 

Yours is an example from the "VB" series, Crawford 95 minted at an uncertain Second Punic War-era military mint that is traditionally associated with Vibo Valentia. It comes in a "large head" variety like yours, a "small head" variety, and a rare fully anonymous variety in the same style as the "small head" variety but lacking the VB. Kenneth Friedman and Richard Schaefer even argued that the anonymous variety(and thereby the signed VB varieties) are probably linked to the Crawford 90 type I posted above in their article on anonymous victoriati. All in all, a pretty cool victoriatus and a nice way to start collecting the denomination.

As far as a full ID for it, here's how I'd catalog it:

Roman Republic AR Victoriatus, Anonymous, ca. 211-208 B.C. Uncertain mint(traditionally, Vibo Valentia). Laureate head of Jupiter right. Border of dots / Victory standing right, crowning trophy with wreath; between, VB; in exergue, ROMA. Line border. Crawford 95/1a

 

Damn. Did you miss anything?

 

Since you already have a conserved coin, I should leave this one alone. It looks like a very easy (part of the debris has come off already in one spot) and inexpensive conservation job that you can do/have done any time. If you keep it as is, more people will want it - those who value originality and those who want a "clean" surface.

 

with less than 100% confidence, I'd vote to clean it. That is a great find. The bits of metal you can see under the deposits do not look bad. You have had at least one good experience with cleaning. Go for it.

 

Here is the small head variety from my collection.

 

I don't blame Red_Spork for cleaning his. Mine, however, shall remain uncleaned...But then mine has less encrustation than his so you can appreciate the details through the hoard patina. If I had his I would be tempted to at least do a mild soak in distilled water to see if some of the heavier encrustation would come off and reveal slightly more detail.

 

This is very true, and you likely won't know until you don't like the results. Have you examined the deposits at all with a gentle probe? Are they soft or solid?

Personally, I'd probably lean toward having it conserved. I wouldn't be very happy with the encrustations. I might be equally unhappy with the cleaning results, if the cleaned surfaces are corroded. That makes it worth the gamble for a potentially greatly improved coin. Worst case, I'm as unhappy with the cleaned coin as the encrusted coin!

 

This is how I'm feeling at this point and I'll probably go with having it conserved when it arrives. I don't have it in-hand just yet but hopefully will within a week or two. One of the things my cleaner was mentioning was removing the top layer of brown deposits/dirt and stopping there if the coin look decent or if he saw anything indicating potential metal problems below. At the end of the day, regardless of what happens, I'll still have an example of a coin that I might otherwise never find an example of.

 

some of that dirt almost looks loose, I think I would have a gentle go at that stuff myself. see much that stuff yields when you get it in hand. it's a nice looking coin RS.

 

I'd clean it or have it cleaned.