The Shipwreck Corner

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This is another amazing coin @lordmarcovan and another coin and shipwreck I had never heard of. This topic appears to cover every period and every continent.

 

SS Longships launched 1917 lost 1939.

This is a coin I found on Ebay last year ( last month actually ). It was recovered from the SS LONGSHIPS shipwreck of 1939 lost on the Seven Stones Reef.





SS Longships struck the Seven Stones reef, midway between Lands End and the Isles of Scilly, whilst on passage Belfast to Plymouth with a general cargo. The crew were rescued by the St. Mary's lifeboat and landed at Scilly. Most of the cargo was lost when she broke her back a week after grounding.
Fortunately there was no loss of life from this sinking.
The coin itself is very common but to find one recovered from a shipwreck adds some cachet. The coin came in a presentation case with a COA and two photographs. I believe my bid didn't even pay for the photographs and box so I am grateful for an honest Ebayer for honouring my bid which was only a quarter of what I could have paid if others had bid.
The seller is a well known diver who was involved in several historical wreck salvages. These are his listing comments.

"This only came to light when my son in law's father unfortunately died recently and these were in his possession as they had been taken from the wreck by his grandfather . I have lived on Scilly since 1969 and I never knew anything was salvaged from this wreck . Since finding the coins however it seems that a lot of Islanders spent Boxing Day 1939 collecting what they could as the ship carried a general cargo .Someone must have opened the safe and a package of these coins were found Many had their first suits from this ship ! "

 

Not sure @lordmarcovan, it's probably me. I don't see them either so I will try reloading and editing.

 

I'm not sure what is happening as I am copying and pasting but when I try to save from a web page I cannot convert to JPEG. I will photograph the whole bundle and edit tomorrow.

 

Here's a pillar dollar that I purchased in 2009 from Dan Sedwick. It is from the Auguste, which sank in 1761 off the coast of Nova Scotia.

Coins from this wreck were auctioned in 2008 by a Canadian firm. Included with the pillar dollars were some 8 reales cobs from Potosi and French écus. As with all salvaged coins, condition varied from lot to lot. I actually was able to obtain a Potosi 8 reales cob during the auction, and I will photographed when I locate it in the nether regions of the boxes.

Mexico, 8 reales, Ferdinand VI, 8 reales, 1758 (narrow date), assayer MM. Salvaged from the Auguste (1761), certificate #0334.
KM 104.2
26.7 grams




For more information about this wreck, here's a Wikipedia link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auguste_(1758_ship)

 

AKERENDAM SHIPWRECK SALVAGE 1972

Recovered from the wreckage of the Akerendam in 1972 off the coast of Norway. All known 1724 ducats are from this wreckage.The Akerendam, was a newly built vessel which set sails from an island called Texel in Netherlands on January 19, 1725. The Akerendam was a part of the Dutch merchant fleet, headed for Batavia (Indonesia) loaded with gold and silver coins to be used for the trade of spices in the Far East. The ship got caught in a storm in the North-Sea, and Akerendam disappeared into the North Sea. The ship went down on the north side of the island of Runde on the Norwegian coast, and the whole crew of 200 was lost at sea!


Country: NETHERLANDS (Utrecht)
Type: Ducat Date: 1724
Certification: NGC #1877952-016 Grade: MS 63

Coin Information:
Design: OBVERSE: Legend around inner circle with standing knight in full armor holding a sword and a sheaf of arrows. The arrows signify the unity of the northern provinces, which banded together and signed the union of Utrecht in 1579, which was there declaration of independence from Spain. Legend – “CONCORDIA RES PARVAE CRESCUNT” translates “Union Makes Small Things Grow” ~ REVERSE: Legend or motto on tablet. “MONETA ORDINUM PROVINCIARUM FOEDERATARUM BELGII AD LEGEM IMPERII” translates “Coin of the Provinces of the United Netherlands According to the Law of The Empire”

Mint: Utrecht
Mintage: 6,505

References: KM #7 / Fr.285 / Delmonte - Unlisted

Specifications: Diameter – 21.0 mm
Weight – 3.5100 g. @ 0.9860 Gold = .1113 oz AGW

Acquired: Doug Prather – October 2006

Notes:

• This date is not referenced in Delmonte's work because a ducat from this date was not known to exist at the time of his books publishing in 1962. You could reasonably assume a Rarity Scale = R.2 - Very Rare.
• "Nouveau" type design (Delmonte)
• Issued as trade coinage by Netherlands for use in their East Indies colony and issued them without change of type (except for date) from 1814 until 1938.
  

 

Thanks!

Yes, some coins salvaged from some areas of the ocean are just more corroded than others. It must have to do with the salinity of the water which can vary, with the colder parts having a somewhat lower salt content than warmer parts. Still, even with the colder waters off Nova Scotia, some of the coins salvaged are quite corroded/eroded. I guess it all depends on where a given coin is located in the pile or chest.

 

I believe you hit the nail on the head @robinjojo , salinity and of course in some areas such as Europe, strong tides.
These two coins came from the Sao Jose which was salvaged in the Mozambique Straits with strong currents.
If you look at a São José coin, it often looks "smooth" or has soft, rounded details compared to a "Grade 1" Atocha coin. I believe there are two main reasons for this:

The São José sank in relatively shallow water on a coral reef in an area with extremely high surge and currents.
For nearly 400 years, the coins were tossed around in a slurry of abrasive sand and coral fragments. I call this the "Maytag" effect.
I picked this set up inexpensively on Ebay and was very pleased as these are,in my opinion, the definitive East Indies Spice Trade coins. Most I've seen are a bright matt white and are overshadowed by Atocha coins so can still be picked up reasonably.
I think the comment "prestigious Shipwreck effect" is somewhat overstated.




These are the original sale details.
KINGDOM_EMPIRE MEXICO UNDER SPAIN
TITLE SAN JOSE SHIPWRECK COIN SET
DENOMINATION REALES
UNIT 8 & 4 REALES
DATE 1618-1622
MATERIAL SILVER
RULER PHILIP III / IV
REGION MEXICO
MINT MEXICO
CATALOG
CONDITION Grade 2
CERTIFIEDBY NGC
OBVERSE Mexico 8 Reales (1618-1622) # Grade 2 Shipwreck Effect
Mexico 4 Reales (1618-1622) # Grade 2 Shipwreck Effect
Elegant hardwood presentation case with inlaid detailing, protective lock, and key.
Certificate of Authenticity signed by the CEO and Co-founder of Arqueonautas Worldwide, confirming the origin and authenticity of these historical artifacts.
Historical Significance:
Bound for Goa, the Sao José ship was part of a fleet dispatched from Lisbon in 1622, transporting royal treasure for the Portuguese Empire. After fierce battles and enduring Dutch and British attacks, the Sao José tragically sank off Mozambique's coast. Rediscovered nearly 400 years later in 2005, these coins serve as tangible relics from a pivotal period in maritime history.

NGC Certified: Professionally authenticated and graded by Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC), these coins bear the prestigious "Shipwreck Effect" certification, ensuring their provenance and increasing collectible value.

Condition:
Coins: Preserved and encapsulated, bearing typical #shipwreck effect# patina reflecting centuries underwater.
Presentation Box: Overall excellent condition, with very minor signs of storage wear (visible in photos).

 

Just for fun, I composed a list of 20 Shipwreck coins I own or are on my radar as acquisitions. There are another 20 to consider including several Dutch vessels such as the Akerendam and De Liefde. I have an example of those with an asterisk and more than one where I have shown two asterisks and I am open to trade.
I have rated them as easily available " High" to "Rare". My next "must haves" are a 1715 Fleet 2 Escudos and SS Central America Double Eagle. I recently traded some Morgan Dollars for my Doddington Clive of India 6400 Reis that I will post soon. I have many more Morgan dollars but all raw.

Rank Shipwreck Coin Type Est. Market Availability Key Feature
1 SS Central America $20 Gold Double Eagle High "Ship of Gold"; NGC/PCGS label.
2* Atocha Silver 8 Reales (Cob) High Must have Mel Fisher COA.
3 1715 Fleet Gold 2 Escudos (Cob) Moderate Florida Treasure Coast find.
4 Doddington Gold Star Pagoda Scarce Clive of India; Spink pedigree.
5* The Concepcion Silver 8 Reales (Cob) Moderate Potosi Cobs; Burt Webber salvage.
6* Doddington Gold 6400 Reis Scarce Look for the "Broken 1" (1750-R).
7* The Hollandia Silver Pillar Dollar Moderate Iconic Pillars & Waves design.
8* SS Republic Lib. Seated Half Dollar High Civil War; "Shipwreck Effect" lustre
9 The Chameau Gold Louis d'Or Rare French shipwreck gold.
10** HMS Association Silver Shilling Moderate Admiral Shovell's British Naval fleet.
11 Santa Margarita Silver 8 Reales Scarce Sister ship to the Atocha.
12* The Reijgersdaal Silver Lion Dollar Moderate Dutch VOC; distinct Lion imagery.
13 The Feversham Pine Tree Shilling Rare Massachusetts Colonial rarity.
14** SS Cairo British India Rupee High Sunk by U-boat; WWII history.
15 SS Brother Jonathan $10 Gold Liberty Scarce California Gold Rush history.
16 The Maravillas Silver 2 or 4 Reales Scarce Unique markings; countermarks.
17** El Cazador Silver 8 Reales Very High "The Hunter"; very affordable.
18** The Douro Gold Sovereign Moderate High-grade Victorian gold.
19 The Hartwell Silver 8 Reales Moderate East Indiaman; Cape Verde.
20**Admiral Gardner Copper 10/20 Cash Very High Best entry-level shipwreck coin.

 

The Hollandia is a shipwreck which has a nice spread of readily available salvaged coins.
Here is one I picked up last year together with the vendors attribution.The coin arrived in a "Shipwreck box" but more importantly with a credit card slip proving it was bought from a shop that was an outlet for such coins. Underweight for a 4 Reales but of course subjected to sea currents, erosion and leaching over 283 years.







A 4 Reales silver coin Spanish c1730 from a the ship Hollandia Dutch East Indiaman sunk Isles of Scilly 1743. bought at the Tip wreck Treasure shop Isle of Scilly.

 

I wouldn't call myself a connoisseur @lordmarcovan , aficionado maybe, Junkie probably. I do have a piece of Chinese shipwreck porcelain, two ink bottles from the SS Republic and a pair of eggcups that miraculously survived the sinking of a tea clipper shipwreck and were recovered a hundred years later. I will post these in the next couple of days when I have a chance to photograph them.
There was a lecture on salvaged porcelain on the last day of the 1715 Fleet conference this month. The last day was an extra day "off topic" of the 1715 Fleet and featured all kinds of subjects including Bob Evans lecturing on minor finds of the SS Central America. Some startling images were of daguerreotypes and ambrotypes that were recovered, some were photographed in-situ before recovery that had been staring out into the void for 150 years.
That is a particularly nice pot you are showing. I have a saucer I will share.

 

I have two beautifull 1600 century Manchu era Urns from Chinese ship that sank in Gulf of Tonkin. They were secretly salvaged and sold on black market. I ended up with a deal!
The shop in Ottawa that sold many Chinese/ Tibetan antiques has amazing stuff. We brought teak furniture from 1700s!

 

It never ceases to amaze me how many things are out there and how many wrecks there are with recovered coins and artefacts.
Following on from your post on the Chinese Pot you gifted your sister, I wanted to post this pair of egg cups. How they survived is incredible and a poignant pair of artefacts that represent the more aspects of everyday mundane life on board a passenger ship.
These egg cups were recovered from the Cutter Avalanche which sank in 1877.

For some reason the second image looks red but they are both blue.

Here are some details of the shipwreck which was a great tragedy.
The Avalanche left London in September 1877 bound for Wellington, New Zealand carrying 63 emigrants. Built of iron and weighing 1,210 tonnes, the Avalanche had a crew of 43 under the command of Captain E. Williams.

As the ship neared Portland Bill, a force eight gale was blowing. The driving rain was whipping up some huge seas. Another ship was sailing nearby. This was the Forest, a wooden ship, bound for New York with a crew of 21 men commanded by Captain Lockhart. By the 11th of September 1877 both ships were twelve miles off Portland Bill. In spite of the awful conditions they managed to see each other but, tragically, it was too late to avoid a collision.

The Forest hit the Avalanche amidships, rebounded and struck again almost cutting her in two. The Avalanche sank straight away with the loss of 103 lives. Only the three who managed to scramble on board the Forest were saved. Very soon thereafter, the Forest’s captain gave orders to abandon ship. They launched three small boats but two sank immediately with the loss of twelve men. The third boat made it to safety carrying twelve survivors.

The Forest stayed afloat and became a hazard to shipping. Eleven days after the tragedy the navy towed it out to sea and blew it up. Many bodies were washed ashore along Chesil Beach. The responsibility for burying the dead lay with the parish councils along the coast. The news of the build-up of bodies waiting to be buried came to the attention of the national press.

An appeal fund was launched by the friends and relations of those who lost their lives in the tragedy. Money poured in from all over England as well as Australia and New Zealand. Sufficient funds were raised to purchase a site on Portland Bill at Southwell to erect a memorial chapel overlooking the scene of the disaster. A huge anchor from the Avalanche lies in the churchyard of what is now known as the Avalanche church.
I did some research and found this image, which I acknowledge on the Deeperdorset.co.uk website, which I would really recommend. It is an excellent resource.
There is a goodly amount of information available on this site regarding "my" particular shipwreck where my egg cups originated.

An image of an egg cup can be seen in the middle of the image which looks identical to mine.
One interesting thing I learnt from the website was that the vessel that collided with the Avalanche, the Forest, was towed further out to sea and sunk with gunpowder. I did a bit of diving of my own and found out elsewhere that torpedoes were fired at it and I had no idea that they were so sophisticated at this time. In fact the British Navy had dedicated torpedo boats in 1877.
If you check out this website there is a list of shipwrecks numbering a couple of hundred! Many of them are thoroughly researched and it is a great resource.

 

Here is my little piece of shipwreck Chinese porcelain @lordmarcovan .


From what I learnt the pot you posted was made in the mid 15th Century a couple of hundred years earlier than my saucer.
During the 1715 Fleet Society’s 2026 Conference (held January 12–14 in Vero Beach, Florida), Richard Mellin presented on Chinese export porcelain. Richard has authored books on Chinese porcelain and is a recognised authority on the subject.

His presentation was titled "Chinese Export Porcelain

About the Porcelain

Richard said that the porcelain discussed in the context of the 1715 Fleet primarily consists of K’ang Hsi (Kangxi) porcelain, produced during the reign of Emperor Kangxi (1662–1722). Key details from the Society's research and recent findings include:

• Origin: These pieces were crafted in China, transported to the Philippines, and then carried via the Manila Galleons to Acapulco, Mexico. From there, they were taken overland to Veracruz to be loaded onto the 1715 Fleet.
• Types Recovered: * Tea Cups and Bowls: Several intact blue-and-white floral pattern tea cups and bowls have been found.
  • Cargo Density: Manifests for ships like the Nuestra Señora de la Regla (the Cabin Wreck) and the San Román (Corrigan’s Wreck) listed dozens of chests of Chinese porcelain.
  • Preservation: Many pieces survived the hurricane because they were originally packed in clay, which formed a protective grey mud layer around the artifacts on the seabed. I also noted that he said that many cases were packed with rice straw and because the plates and pots were stacked in columns, many survived as they were held rigidly in position.

I surprised myself by buying some china and porcelain artefacts because of my concern about breaking them when in my curatorship but I couldn't resist.
My primary interest in Shipwrecks is coins but there is so much else to collect or research about. I once owned a Royal National Lifeboat Institute Medal I traded and now wish I had not. Next up will be my SS Republic pottery.