@KBBPLL . @justafarmer . At anyone with numismatic experience. I have spent decades collecting Seated Coins and have basically learned that the vast majority of Seated (circulated) coins were allowed to go terminal black at least once. These coins would then get dipped and whatever original details and luster that remained would be revealed. However, I was taught to take a 20X magnifier to any coin and look for telltale tiny black carbon spots hidden in the deepest recesses of the coin. This is your best clue that you are looking at secondary toning on most Seated coins. I will add that the chance of finding a coin that may have never been dipped would obviously improve as you got later in the series. What i mean by that is that there may be late date circulated Seated silver that did not get the chemical treatment and or the coin never actually made it to the terminal state. I only have 3 high grade Barber dimes to go by; and my gut instinct is that all 3 probably went thru a chemical bath at least once, but where would you look on a Barber coin for residual terminal black specks? Barber coins do not have the collector history that Seated coins have. Do any of you think there was less tendency to dip Barber coins? What do you think a completely original, never been dipped Barber coin would look like? finally, what percent of Barber coins would you estimate might be quote "Strict Original?" Thank you to anyone who has information or an opinion to share. James
Strictly original coins that show no signs of terminal toning do exist, but that population drops daily. My opinion is that such coins should be coveted by all, but seem to curry favor only with "purists". Toning is not necessarily bad, but it is viewed as bad by some. Terminal black toning may be called bad by some, but the alternative likely is worse. In any case, yes, there are definitely both seated and Barber coins that are strictly original, without terminal black toning. Some of these were properly cared for from their first days, and others survived as such accidentally. Prime examples of the latter would be coins stored far longer than expected in rolls, where both faces of all but the end coins are largely untoned, yet the rims may exhibit obvious color. This likely explains substantially greater numbers of untoned, yet intensely lustrous uncirculated coins being available for some dates than others. Obviously, the older the issue, the harder it would be to locate such opportunities, but perusing the galleries of graded coins at both PCGS & NGC may clue you in to what dates might realistically be worth searching / holding out for in original coins without terminal toning. Just recognize that you may have lots of competition and have to pay substantially more for such coins. I don't like coins that are blanketed in terminal toning, but can tolerate those having black in isolated areas if the balance of the coin compensates for it. Personally, I think it's better to focus on coins with good overall appeal, even if there's an insignificant distraction here or there, be it an inconspicuous pinprick, carbon spot or strike-thru. After all, do you enjoy your coins at arm's length, or under a microscope?
@ToughCOINS . Personally I threw in the towel years ago when it came to Seated coins. I have only just started collecting Barber coins. It is hard to draw many conclusions from a pool of 3 coins but it occurred to me that Barbers have a very different history and thus a very different population. I am quite interested in what might be possible. james
I don't have much experience judging "original" versus dipped coins. I will say that I don't ascribe to the notion I've seen people post, that any coin more than X years old that isn't toned is not "original." It all depends on how they were stored and their overall environment. I have silver coins in 2x2s for over 50 years, which were raw before that for another 30+ years, that I know never had anything done to them but show no toning at all. So I'd say Barbers versus Seated Dimes might have more to do with how storage methods changed over the years than a tendency for one series to have been chemically treated more than another. I'm thinking of how much coal was burned for heat and industry, sulfur content in coin envelopes, etc and how that progressed over the years. Maybe those are factors too? Where to look for residual black specks? I had not heard of this before. It seems like the places where "terminal toning" begins is also the same places where it would remain after chemical treatment. Here's an NGC AU55 from my collection. You don't need 20x to see the black stuff in the crevices. Does it mean that the coin is not original? Or is it just where that stuff starts to form anyway? I don't know. This is the only "gem" (MS65 CAC) coin I have. I would say that it's original. But I'm not sure if there's a particular "look" that is definitive. I have others that it seems to me are original (could be wrong) but have a golden hue mixed with other rainbow colors, likely from album toning. But would someone say these were dipped and then retoned? How do you tell? And here's a couple proofs more along the lines of "terminal" toning I suppose. Quite dark and yet "shiny." (PR63 and PR64) An interesting topic for sure.
The entire topic of black specks isn't of my invention. I first started collecting Seated coins in 1996/7. All my prior experience had been strictly with 20th Century coins. Like most collectors, I placed a great deal of emphasis on finding coins for my collection that were as close to "as minted" as possible. To me, it just seemed natural to transfer this idea to collecting 19th Century coins. Circa 1996/2005 there was a board online that I became aqquanted with that focused solely on Seated coins. Of course one of the things I did was post pictures of my first coins. Coins I called strictly original, as minted etc. People on that site were quick to educate me. I learned that to get rid of ALL the black toning from a coin turned terminal usually required too long of a chemical bath and would leave a dead lifeless appearing coin. Making the chemical bath shorter would restore a coin but if the owner looked closely at areas such as the denticles of stars with a strong magnifier you would find those telltale specks. All of my coins had said specks. I was crushed for almost a month and almost gave up on Seated coins. I also learned how to spot digger coins. Besides often times having a specific type of scratches, coins that had been in the dirt would have "brown" dirt embedded in the shield lines on both sides. Look at enough coins and you can develop quite an expertise for spotting coins that had turned completly black, Tiny coal black spots, almost terminal, browns spots in the same places and like I said, digger coins that had their own specific appearance. I didn't discover any of these things but i have never forgotten the lessons others taught me. james
