Advice on Cleaning Project, Please...

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by John Anthony, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Hey folks, I looked through bagfuls of semi-cleaned LRB's at NYINC because that's what poor people do at NYINC: look through bags of cheap coins and eat at the hot dog cart on the corner of Park Avenue and 49th - I mean why would you spend your entire coin budget buying a sandwich at an actual restaurant on Park Avenue, right?

    Anyway, I looked through a few hundred LRB's, all with exactly the same mineral deposits, that evidently came from the same pot - at least that's what the dealer told me. A coin dealer wouldn't lie to you, would he? I fished out 8 worthy candidates for a cleaning.

    The first coin is actually quite rare, a Rome-only issue of Securitas standing next to a column. This design was used primarily for solidi, but they are also quite rare. The rest are pretty common, but the Crispus is scarce and the GLORIA EXERCITVS with emperor in military attire is also scarce, as is the VRBS ROMA/GLORIA mule.

    composite k.jpg

    In my opinion, these coins could use half of the deposits removed, so more of the detail would show throw. I've spoken to some of you cleaning gurus that had good success with ammonia and/or mineral spirit soaks, so I thought I would try that - on the common coins first of course.

    But I thought I'd ask the open forum for any and all advice. Do any of you have experience getting some of this mineral stuff off? Is there some sort of chemical solution I can use that will dissolve it? I'd love to be able to soak the coins for a bit, then maybe just lightly brush them and be done with it. I don't want to remove it all - but I would like some of the dark patina to show through more.

    Thanks!
     
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  3. TJC

    TJC Well-Known Member

    Lol. When I went it was the hot dog stand for to too. An the hot dog was good:)

    Great lot of coin!! As far as cleaning I would start with an acetone soak followed by a distilled water soak and rubbing between the fingers.
     
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  4. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    congrats on the new OP additions
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  5. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I like your coins, but I cannot give any advice on cleaning. I'm horrible at it and don't even try any longer. Good luck.
     
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  6. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    In many cases, the crud is held together by proteinaceous, organic material that is amenable to being dissolved by enzymes (proteases). I would get a box of contact lens enzymatic cleaner at the drug store and prepare it as directed according to the directions on the box. As if they were contact lenses, insert the coins in the little containers for the cleaner and leave them soak 12 hours or so. Brush to loosen up the crud, then rinse and then soak in distilled water for 1-2 days, changing the water a couple times a day and brushing the coins with each water change. This will not hurt the patina at all.
     
  7. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    i think those are some pretty attractive LRB. i don't clean off hard depostis like those, but some folks here are darn good at it.

    i hadn't heard of that technique roman collector, interesting.

    keep us posted JA.
     
  8. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    It works for dirt (organic), not verdigris (inorganic) deposits.
     
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  9. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    I have never heard of this, but it sounds so scientific, I MUST give it a try! There is no bronze disease on these coins - it's all dirt and minerals.
     
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  10. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    Your first coin is actually from London, it is RIC VI London 277 and the second coin is not a mule, it is a regular issue. Below is another SECVRITAS from London

    Secvritas.JPG
     
  11. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Thanks for the corrections @Victor_Clark - talking off the top of my head without checking the books, never a good idea.
     
  12. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    My cleaning of ancients is not stellar, but you can't go wrong with using a water soak and occasionally brushing with a toothbrush that has the bristles cut down to half length so they are stiffer. Chemicals are always risky (and I am a chemist) because the interactions can be pretty intense. I have seen the one about ammonia, but I think that is mostly for silver (lemon juice too). I just took a chance on potassium hydroxide and look forward to posting the results.
     
  13. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    Initially I wouldn't use anything except distilled water and a toothbrush. Once the crud has lifted I would look at the results and see if you need anything further with regard to mineral deposits. I wouldn't use fingers for rubbing, you will only transfer oils from the skin to the surface of the coin.
     
  14. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

  15. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    Oh, that bottom left is pretty cool too. Good group of coins.
     
  16. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Skiing holiday.
     
  17. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    If you believe the coins all came from the ground together it would certainly be good to buy extras to serve a Guinea pigs for cleaning. I'm not a cleaner but I do have coins that would benefit from having an expendable sister or ten so I might feel up to attempting it on the good one.
     
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  18. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    So I was intrigued with the suggestion by @Roman Collector to use an enzymatic solution, but evidently those things aren't as common as they used to be. I went to a couple pharmacies in town last night, and they did not carry the old-school tablets and vials. Everything now is about multi-purpose solutions. So I experimented with actually using a multi-purpose solution that claims to remove proteins, and soaked a couple of the coins overnight in a contact lens case (into which AE3's fit perfectly). This morning, I was pleasantly surprised to find that the solution in the case was quite green, so it did manage to dissolve some of the gunk...

    DSCN2165.JPG

    Here are before and after pics on one of the coins. This coin is considerably darker now, with slightly more detail and patina showing through. All I did was rinse it under tap water and brush it lightly with a toothbrush for about 30 seconds, after I removed it from the case...

    compare 1 k.jpg

    I'm quite happy with this progress, so the coins are going back into the contact lens case. I'll repeat the procedure until the solution no longer turns green, and see how much dirt I can gently remove.

    I'm also going to put two coins into distilled water as a control group, and I've ordered some of the enzymatic tablets online, so two coins will get that treatment - I'm guessing the full-out enzymatic will be faster acting.

    So this is the contact-lens-solution-ancient-coin-cleaning experiment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  19. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I like the coin in the before image. Am I missing something?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
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  20. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Naw - each to his own. We're doing this for science, Bing. :vulcan:
     
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  21. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Proteins are not blue-green. There are other chemicals/salts in the solution which are reacting to remove or alter the verdigris and that is why the solution changed colors and probably the largest factor in why the patina now looks different. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I'd finish the process with a few distilled water soaks and careful drying.
     
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